Children Speak About How Spanking Feels To Them

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There has been much swirling debate in social media about spanking…whether or not it is okay to do it, if it makes good parenting sense, if good parents do it…and today I learned that there are get-along shirts that encapsulate upset and arguing or fighting children into a large shirt against their will as punishment.

It is truly difficult to take care of children, and many of us fall back on the parenting strategies we learned from our parents….even when or if that feels very wrong to us….because we are frustrated, have run out of ideas and we go for what we know from embedded memory.

This is an international question. As early as the 1920’s the international
http://www.un-documents.net/gdrc1924.htm community  saw a need to address the treatment of children all over the world.

The UN Rights of the Child (full text here)

http://www.ovcsupport.net.wc01.cfdynamics.com/libsys/Admin/d/DocumentHandler.ashx?id=123

was born because people understood children are vulnerable and need our protection. In 1989 the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child Treaty was signed by every country in the world but the US and Somalia. Since then there has been slow yet determined work in the international community to end the abuse and mistreatment of children. Spanking has been made against the law in many countries. The work continues. Read more here:

http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org/pages/frame.html

This is what some children, aged 5-8, in the UK answered when interviewed about spanking. It is from the End Corporal Punishment website link above. image In the UK, people don’t call it spanking, they call it smacking. This is what kids have to say about the issue. Please  “get little” and listen to the kids.

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What is smacking?

‘It’s like very hard hitting and it hurts you’ (6 year old girl)
‘something what hurts people’
‘grown ups hit you with their hand – it’s something hard’ (7 year old girl)
‘it really hurts’ (5 year old girl)
‘A smack is when people hit you and it stings and I cry’ (5 year-old girl)
‘it’s when someone is cross with you they hit you and it hurts’ (7 year old girl)
‘[a smack is] parents trying to hit you, [but] instead of calling [it] a hit they call it a smack’ (7 year-old girl)

Why do you think children get smacked?

‘When people have been naughty and they ‘re fighting they get smacked by [their] mum or dad’ (6 year-old boy)’
‘[Children get smacked] when you fight with other people, when you throw stones and things’ (7 year old boy)
‘maybe [you] do painting on the carpet [or] drawing on the settee [or] not tidying your room up — if you play with paint and get it on something. And if you knock your mum’s favourite glass over and it smashes’ (5 year-old girl)
‘well, if it was time to tidy up your room and you only had an hour and you wasted all the hour reading books, you could get smacked’ (6 year-old boy)
‘because their parents tell them not to do something and they do it’ (7 year old girl)

Who usually smacks children?

‘well, I think mostly family and sometimes friends who get quite cross with you like [your] mum and dad, grandma and granddad and friends that live quite near here, in the same street’ (6 year-old girl)
‘their parents or your mummy or your daddy or your granddad or your auntie or your grandma or people in your house – a big person has to hit a little person because they ‘re naughty’ (5 year-old girl)
‘sometimes your uncles and aunties are there and your mum and dads are there they can smack you really hard or they can smack you with a cane’ (5 year-old girl)
‘usually their parents and relations and occasionally you might get a teacher’ (7 year-old girl)
‘your parents usually smack you and if your auntie is annoyed with you she might smack – or [it can be] any of your family’ (6 year-old boy)
‘thieves, kidnappers, mums and dads [and] nasty men’ (5 year-old boy)

Where do children usually get smacked?

‘[children get smacked] in a corner because the parents wouldn’t want to do it so everyone could see cos then [the children] might call someone else and they might come and take the children so they’ll go in a corner and smack’ (6 year-old boy)
‘at home or normally where nobody else is’ (7 year-old boy)
‘if there were thousands of people looking, then [the] mum as well as the child will get very embarrassed probably it would be a bit rude to do it in front of everybody (7 year-old boy)
‘when you go shopping and take something and you go and ask your parents and your parents will hit you and embarrass you’ (5 year old girl)
‘on my bum, on my face, on my head and on my arm and on the belly and on the legs’ (5 year-old girl)
‘I think children usually get smacked on the side of their face or on their tummy. Sometimes it depends how they were. If they were really naughty, it would be on their bottom but sometimes it’s usually on their hands’ (7 year-old)
‘[they] hit you on the head where they’re not supposed to hit you’ (7 year-old boy)

What does it feel like to be smacked?

‘it feels like someone banged you with a hammer’ (5 year old girl)
‘it hurts and it’s painful inside – it’s like breaking your bones’ (7 year old girl)
‘it’s like when you ‘re in the sky and you ‘re falling to the ground and you just hurt yourself’ (7 year old boy)
[It feels] like someone’s punched you or kicked you or something’ (6 year old boy)
‘[Children feel] grumpy and sad and also really upset inside’ (5 year old girl)
‘[It] hurts your feelings inside’ (7 year old girl)
‘You feel you don’t like your parents anymore’ (7 year old girl)
‘it feels, you feel sort of as though you want to run away because they ‘re sort of like being mean to you and it hurts a lot’ (7 year old girl)
‘when you get smacked sometimes we get angry because sometimes when my mum smacks me you get angry’ (6 year old boy)
‘it feels like [they] shouldn’t have done that, it hurts. It feels embarrassed, it feels like you are really sorry and it hurts’ (7 year old girl)
‘I think it probably makes you feel ashamed inside’ (7 year old girl)
‘it hurts people and it doesn’t feel nice and people don’t like it when they are smacked’ (5 year old)
‘[It makes you] grumpy and sad and also really upset inside. And really hurt (5 year-old girl)
‘Sometimes may feel that inside like their tummy hurts’ (5 year-old boy)
‘You’re hurt and it makes you cry [and] drips come out of your eyes’ (5 year-old girl)

How do children act after they have been smacked?

‘Cry, and sometimes if they haven ‘t got a handle on their door in their bedrooms – like I haven’t – they lock themselves inside’ (5 year-old boy)
‘They cry, also they weep [and] they might think their parents are silly’ (5 year-old girl)
‘Sometimes they get sent to bed. They start crying. And sometimes I get sent to bed and I get no tea later’ (6 year-old boy)
‘They might cry, they might get upset and they might have to go to bed’ (6 year-old girl)
‘they act naughty and start to hurt people… they’re very angry and the adult thinks they can do as he wants (5 year-old girl)
‘Some of them if they’re really naughty they do the same mistake again and if they’re good they learn from their mistake’ (6 year-old boy)
‘Try and do their hardest to try and get it right or don’t do it again’ (7 year-old girl)
‘Sometimes they just keep quiet, because they feel really embarrassed and sometimes they just try to be good and try to do the best thing… it actually depends what you have been smacked for’ (7 year-old girl)
‘They get angry and grumpy and cross with their mummies’ (5 year-old girl)
‘I’ve thought of another answer — if they’re very little, they might think it’s right to smack and go off and smack somebody else’ (7 year-old girl)

How do adults act after they have given a smack?

‘they sort of walk around very fast’ (5 year-old)
‘get a grumpy face, like that [shows teeth]’ (4 year-old boy)
‘I think they feel a bit sort of sorry but they don ‘t want to say, but they do’ (7 year-old girl)
‘they wished they hadn’t done it but they know it’s because they just had to do it and they probably feel ashamed at their child’ (7 year-old girl)
‘they don’t feel like they wanted to smack in the first place’ (5 year-old girl)
‘if they’re outside the door talking to someone then they could just come in and smack you and then go out again’ (6 year-old boy)
‘well they usually are still quite cross and if you need them afterwards they don’t really reply. They just keep on doing what they do’ (6 year-old girl)

Why don’t children smack adults?

‘because if they smack adults the adults smack them back and it hurts’ (6 year-old girl)
‘adults are bigger and the adults can smack harder than children’ (7 year-old girl)
‘That’s simple! Because it’s very rude to smack your parents because they’re bigger and older and they might hurt you back and they might be silly when they’re drunk and they might hit you’ (7 year-old boy)
‘adults are bigger and stronger and people treat them more seriously’ (7 year-old girl)

Why don’t adults smack each other?

‘Grown ups grow out of the habit and if they still have the habit they don’t smack each other, instead they smack children’ (7 year-old girl)
‘because they must respect each other cos if they smacked each other they won ‘t like each other’ (5 year-old girl)
‘because they go to bed with each other and they need each other and they sleep together. They give a cuddle and they give a kiss and they shout at each other’ (5 year-old boy)
‘My mum and dad have smacked each other because daddy was doing hard things to mum. And I kicked him, and I smacked him and kicked him’ (5 year-old boy)

When you are big do you think you will smack children?

‘I would smack children when I’m at the age of 20 or an adult because if I’m a parent you have to smack children’ (6 year-old boy)
‘No, because I think smacking is not very nice and I when I grow up I hope my children will be nice. And I’m not gonna smack them because I don’t want to smack my children because say when they grow up and they can still remember that day when they got smacked… and then they’ll start a fight… and they’ll smack little children’ (7 year-old boy)
‘…I wouldn’t smack any of my children anyway because they will just start smacking other people and if I smack someone then they are going to start smacking other people, because they think grown ups do it and if the law didn’t allow smacking I would just send them out to their room and let them have a think about it’ (7 year-old girl)

Do you know anybody who doesn’t like smacking?

‘me, because it hurts very very much and you could just say to the children “go in your bedroom for a few hours and watch the tele and later I’ll have your tea ready”’ (7 year-old girl)
‘my friend — she’s six – cos when she bes naughty she always gets smacked and she doesn’t like it. And I don’t like getting smacked either because it hurts so much’ (7 year-old girl)
‘my mum doesn’t like smacking cos if she does she’ll just have to do it again and again and her hand will get sore and she won ‘t like it she won ‘t be able to cook with it and do stuff’ (5 year-old girl)

Who thinks it’s wrong to smack?

‘I think it’s right and wrong because if dogs are naughty you have to smack them’ (7 year-old boy)
‘I think it’s good and bad because when you’ve been naughty it teaches you not to do it again’ (7 year-old girl)
‘[Me] because they go in a sad face’ (4 year-old boy)
‘It’s painful and it sets a wrong example for other people’ (7 year-old girl)
‘it hurts and you could break a bone or something. If you did it hard enough, you could damage something’ (7 year-old girl)
‘Me, because probably you did it by accident and it looked like you did it on purpose and they smacked you and it was wrong to smack’ (7 year-old girl)

How can we stop children being smacked?

‘by being good for all your life’ (7 year-old girl)
‘if they [children] be good all week and all month… they won’t get smacked’ (5 year-old girl)
‘[adults could] try not to smack them’ (7 year-old girl)
‘if it is against the law and if people who are in special organisations have the right to put posters up in places saying… “please can you stop smacking children”’ (7 year-old girl)
‘I was just thinking that if they changed the law then a lot of people will realise what they had done to their child and they would probably be happy that the law was changed. If they don’t change the law they will think “oh well, the child doesn’t mind so we can keep on doing it”. But if they realise that children have been talking to adults about it then I think they will definitely realise that it hurts their child and they will be very upset with themselves’ (7 year-old girl)
‘Well you can say “well, how would you feel if somebody bigger came up to you and smacked you?” And say things like that and [say], “it doesn’t help at all because you’re just going to make it worse”‘ (7 year-old girl)
‘if there were only six – but I don ‘t think there is — then I don ‘t think he [Tony Blair] would change the law. If there is a lot of people like, I don’t know, 70 or something then I think he would definitely change the law’ (7 year-old girl)

Conclusion

This unique report offers adults and the UK Government a window through which they can clearly see the distress, pain and hurt caused to children by the continued social and legal acceptance of smacking. The National Children’s Bureau and Save the Children would like to see steps taken to ensure that our youngest citizens have the same legal rights to protection from any form of assault as older people. This will not only – over time – greatly reduce children’s suffering, it will also substantially improve relationships between parents and children.

To order a copy of the full report, contact
National Children’s Bureau,
8 Wakley Street,
London
EC1V 7QE.
Telephone +44 (0)20 7843 6000.
http://catalog.ncb.org.uk/
———-
Interviews of Children In New Zealand

http://www.msd.govt.nz/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/journals-and-magazines/social-policy-journal/spj30/30-children-physical-punishment-risk-factor-child-abuse-p145-162.html

 STATEMENTS BY CHILDREN AND THEIR ORGANISATIONS

Increasingly children themselves are speaking out against corporal punishment. This section includes extracts from statements made by children and children’s organisations.

The Global Initiative welcomes additions to this section: please send details to info@endcorporalpunishment.org.

A Children’s Summit, held on June 13 2001 in Göteborg, Sweden urged the EU to ensure that all Member States and candidate countries ban all corporal punishment.

“In preparation for the EU Summit Meeting, we about 350 children and young persons aged 11-16 have gathered here today to have our own summit meeting in Göteborg — Our Children’s Summit Meeting.

“During the spring we, pupils from eleven schools in Göteborg, together with some people from Save the Children Sweden, have discussed what we think about and what we want. At the Children’s Summit Meeting today we have continued to discuss the things that are important to us. We would like to share our conclusions with others. We believe that what we have to say does not only apply to us, but that it also may apply for many children in Europe. Therefore, we have decided to forward these recommendations to the EU decision-makers…. Human rights apply not only to adults but also to children and young people. We children have our own rights. We consider that this is sometimes forgotten. All Member States of the EU and all candidate countries have ratified the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (CRC). We believe that every time the EU makes a decision that is of importance for children, EU politicians must remember to compare the proposal with the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

“Politicians often refer to us children as being the future of Europe. But we are living right now. – Our childhood is happening now and not in the future. We do not think it is enough for decision-makers (for example politicians and public officials) to speak a lot about children and how important they are. – We want them to listen to us. We want to see action!

“Governments are responsible for living up to the rules in the CRC in their respective countries. We want the following to get through to the EU at the Children’s Summit Meeting:

“All children have the right…

1. Not to be hit

The EU should ensure that a total prohibition against corporal punishment of children is introduced in all Member States and candidate countries. Why should it be allowed to hit children when it is not allowed to hit adults? Adults must convince children to behave properly instead of hitting them….”

(The Children’s Summit Declaration includes seven other demands).

UK — Article 12 children and young people’s organisation statement

Smacking is Assault

As an organisation run by and for children and young people to actively promote the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Child we see smacking and all other forms of physical punishment as totally disrespectful to our rights as human beings.

Physical punishment is the simplest violation of fundamental and basic human rights yet it’s a daily experience of most children who live in the UK and across the world.

Children are the only group of people who do not have a legal right to be protected from assault. Babies, toddlers and children by law can be assaulted. The law, our government and our society see it as acceptable to smack and use violence against children.

Despite experts in children’s rights and welfare condemning the UK Government for not outlawing smacking and all other forms of physical punishment, there seems to have been no positive action taken.

We as children and young people live in a society which takes away our social freedoms such as going out at night, the right to vote, being smacked and having to go to school and face bullying, social exclusion and exam failure. Its time for change – children and young people are a valuable part of society with lots to offer. Laws should be in place to protect us, not to give our parents the right to hit us.

Children are being treated like second-class citizens without the same rights adults take for granted. In all of the discussions about smacking the views of children aren’t event part of the picture.

Parents often say they smack their children to teach them respect. How can you expect children to respect people who don’t respect them? Violence is not something you use against someone you love and respect. Surely if you love someone and respect them you would take the time to explain things?

We believe that even a small organisation like Article 12 can change things for such a large proportion of British Society —children and young people. “We want to make a political statement to the whole world that children should not be smacked or hurt in any way by anyone”.

In April 2000 we held the hugely successful Stop Smacking Us! Day. About 150 children marched through central London to demand an end to smacking. This was our response to the Department of Health consultation document ‘Protecting Children, Supporting Parents’ — a document which makes depressing reading.

The view of our organisation is simply that smacking is not something that should happen to children whether their parents think it should not.

Click here to find out more about Article 12: http://www.article12.com

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Addendum

Research on the effects of corporal punishment

The evidence that corporal punishment is harmful to children, adults and societies is overwhelming. The more than 150 studies included in the Global Initiative’s review of research on the effects of corporal punishment show associations between corporal punishment and a wide range of negative outcomes, including:

direct physical harm

negative impacts on mental and physical health

poor moral internalisation

increased aggression in children

increased perpetration and experience of violence in adults

increased antisocial behaviour

poor cognitive development

damaged family relationships

Intended for use by advocates for prohibition, the review illuminates how corporal punishment violates not just children’s right to freedom from all violence, but also their rights to health, development and education. It is available in both full and summary forms.

Download the summary (Word/PDF) and review (Word/PDF).
http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org/pages/frame.html

* * * * * *

An Overview of the Evidence Against Spanking

http://www.parentingscience.com/spanking-children.html


From the American Psychological Association

“A growing body of research has shown that spanking and other forms of physical discipline can pose serious risks to children, but many parents aren’t hearing the message.”
http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx

What Can Parents Do Instead
http://www.handinhandparenting.org/article/whats-the-problem-with-spanking/

Report from Time Magazine
http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1983895,00.html

_________________________

Alfie Kohn has written much about children, schools and parenting. This book (link below) has been helpful to those who want to explore different ways to think about themselves as parents, and to change from traditional and harmful practice.

“Most parenting guides begin with the question “How can we get kids to do what they’re told?” and then proceed to offer various techniques for controlling them. In this truly groundbreaking book, nationally respected educator Alfie Kohn begins instead by asking, “What do kids need — and how can we meet those needs?” What follows from that question are ideas for working with children rather than doing things to them.

“One basic need all children have, Kohn argues, is to be loved unconditionally, to know that they will be accepted even if they screw up or fall short. Yet conventional approaches to parenting such as punishments (including “time-outs”), rewards (including positive reinforcement), and other forms of control teach children that they are loved only when they please us or impress us. Kohn cites a body of powerful, and largely unknown, research detailing the damage caused by leading children to believe they must earn our approval. That’s precisely the message children derive from common discipline techniques, even though it’s not the message most parents intend to send”

http://www.amazon.com/Unconditional-Parenting-Moving-Rewards-Punishments/dp/0743487486

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About cthebean

Educator, musician, social justice activist...and now a blogger. Children deserve unflinching support from adults.....they deserve nothing less. All kids . Everybody's kids. Everywhere.
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245 Responses to Children Speak About How Spanking Feels To Them

  1. If one adult gets physically violent with another adult, that is grounds for an assault and battery charge. When an adult does that to a child, it is called discipline. Total double standard there.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Idiotic parents spank their children. Smart parents do not.

    Like

  3. The findings present that life expectancy at start has risen by 6.2 years
    for each sexes, up from 65.3 in 1990 to 71.5 in 2013.

    Like

  4. cthebean says:

    Reblogged this on and commented:

    The spanking debate continues and it is good that this is being talked about. It is hard for some to come to grips with the fact that spanking children is legal in all fifty states and that most people feel spanking is an acceptable form of discipline.
    It is also difficult for people who spank to consider that it could be harmful to their children now and in the future. Spanking has been accepted as a viable, if somewhat unpleasant strategy for generations.

    This piece has been widely read, but some of the thinking of readers has not been. I thought I would share a reader’s comment that expresses a viewpoint held by many people on the subject of spanking.
    ———
    “I was spanked as a child but I honestly think it helped. It was only until I was old enough to enter school before I had enough cognitive function to understand cause and effect. My parents would tell me not to do something (such as sliding down the stairs on a pillow is one I vividly remember) my mother told me several times that I could get hurt if I continued and that I was being quite disruptive, when I repeatedly ignored her she finally got fed up and got my dad. They then both brought me into the living room and sat me down and explained the reason for why they were going to spank me. After they had they sat me up and made sure I understood why I have to listen to them (they would be very sad if anything happened to me and never wanted to see me hurt). They used it as a learning tool and because of this I have always been a more reasonable child. I never distrusted them and they always explained why things were they way they were and answered all of my questions.
    I really believe that when used and explained properly to the child, spanking can be a very effective teaching tool. When I got older (I think from age 6 and up) my parents then used different methods of punishment to teach these lessons because then I was able to understand them. Spanking should only be used for small disruptive children who won’t be able to understand other forms of punishment.”

    Like

  5. cthebean says:

    Here is another opinion piece to throw into the conversation. The writer makes the important point that most of the world believes that spanking and other forms of corporal punishment are unacceptable ways to care for children. Verbal abuse and shaming, as well, are unlawful acts in many countries of the world. Read more here: http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2012/06/11/spanking-your-child-not-something-people-agree-with-worldwide/

    Like

  6. Ruth says:

    I told myself I wasn’t going to comment. And then I went to bed, and laid there thinking about this article for 20 minutes, and realised giving my opinion was the only way to shut down the over-activity in my brain (LOL). I just want to clarify, I love kids. I’m training to be a teacher so that I can advocate for them. I have loved my nephews like they were my own. And recently I did have a child of my own, and realised I was able to love someone a little bit more than my nephews. I was also smacked as a child. I did not grow up thinking it was ok to be aggressive. I grew up recognising that my mother was teaching me right from wrong, and out of her responsibility to me as my parent, she was sometimes required to do the hard task of disciplining me. I never feared her, however I feared the punishment, and as a result, my understanding of right and wrong was shaped. I know that my mum loved me because, although she had to discipline me occasionally, she was affectionate, and provided me with everything I ever needed plus more.

    As others have said, there is a big difference between parents who abuse their children in anger and lack of self-control, and parents who discipline their children in love and concern. I agree that we should fight to protect children in abusive circumstances. But is removing authority from genuinely loving parents the answer? I don’t think so. Even adults need to be governed– that’s why we have a government and a police force– and yet we expect children to somehow be able to govern themselves…? Just because a few police officers may abuse their authority, does not mean we should get rid of the police force completely. Likewise, just because some parents abuse their authority over their children, does not mean that all parents should be stripped of their authority to discipline their children in love.

    I will concede that smacking/ spanking is not always the appropriate form of discipline. However, I do believe there is a place for it. For example, sometimes smacking is a better outcome than a child walking into danger and being more seriously hurt. Going with the scenario given above, with the child walking onto the road, I would say a smack is an appropriate response. Some of you suggested explaining that it is dangerous, but how can a 3 y/o comprehend the gravity of what could occur? In that situation, a smack, while painful for a moment, is better than being hit by a car and experiencing something far worse. Where a smack is a stark but momentary warning, it could protect them from far worse physical pain.

    I couldn’t help but notice that the study was done on 5-7 y/o (and some of them I am concerned may be in abusive circumstances)… I am not surprised that they don’t fully understand the purpose of smacking. One child said they wish their parents would send them to their room to watch tv and think about it. That just goes to show that children think discipline should be easy.

    The answer here is not to criminalise smacking. The answer is to discipline parents who abuse their children unfairly– who regularly bring physical, psychological and emotional pain on their children without cause. If advocates criminalise smacking, and as a result, every loving parent who uses that form of discipline in raising their children, then a few years down the track, when parents are helpless and don’t know what to do with their children, they will have to give an answer. Already I have been seeing the results of such parenting, and the kids are very much aware of their human rights, but are not aware of their human responsibilities. This will only lead to a nation of adults who have no respect for authority, and who believe that (self) discipline should be easy.

    Like

    • Virgil Banowetz says:

      Thank you Ruth. If there is one thing I’ve learned in my years is that liberty is the way to progress and improvements in society. Laws and treaties that remove liberty must be justified by facts and studies; studies about feeling just don’t do the job.

      Like

      • cthebean says:

        Virgil..what about the liberty of the child? In your mind do only adults deserve liberty..and the liberty to hurt others because they don’t know any other way to solve the issue?
        This is not about “feelings”. This is about human growth and development and the fact that violence and stress impacts that growth and development .

        Ruth..thank you for sharing your thoughts. There are many many loving and caring people who feel the way you do about spanking. Our culture and society has sanctioned this strategy for ages and it is hard to break free…but we are learning many new things about human development and that spanking – no matter the intention of the spanker..is quite harmful to children. What makes me sad is the the USA is so far behind other countries in grappling with this issue in a society wide manner.

        Liked by 1 person

    • tealrose1 says:

      I am actually appalled that as a trainee teacher you don’t understand that the ‘scenario’ of a 3 yr old running in the road is NOT the child’s fault, and shouldn’t be treated as such. If anyone is to blame it would be the parent’s or whoever is taking care …. or not .. of the child. Of course a 3 yr old can’t understand how dangerous a road is, nor can it understand why a loving parent would hit it .. and hurt it … and that that must mean they shouldn’t run in the road. As a teacher you should understand age related behaviour. As an adult in charge of a child … put the responsibility where it lies .. on the ADULT. Perhaps we should spank the adult who was careless enough to allow the child to run in the road … ? Ah .. we can’t though can we because for some strange reason .. hitting adults is illegal and frowned upon. Yet .. we don’t stop learning .. even as adults .. do we?

      You can make hitting a child illegal, without criminalising it. Just as Sweden and most other countries who have banned hitting children have done. If a parent is found to be hitting their child, they have to attend gentle, alternative parenting lessons. It is only if they continue to hit their child, and refuse to stop .. that the law comes down hard on them. You can no more be a ‘loving parent’ and hit a child, than you can be a ‘loving spouse’ and hit your partner.

      When will pro spankers realise that no hitting does NOT mean no discipline? When will they learn that discipline means to teach and not to hit. When will they realise that lack of any discipline is what is wrong? When will they learn that children should and DO have RIGHTS .. at least in most other civilised countries? When will they learn that respect is earned and not a right ? That you don’t just get it automatically for just being over the age of majority? That children should be taught who to give respect to and how, and taught how to discern those who don’t … ie those who might well abuse their trust .. and even them?

      IF parents find they ‘Don’t know what to do’ with their children, I would hope they did have enough sense to get help: either in the shape of therapy for the family and children or even from gentle parenting groups. Banning spanking aka hitting children, does NOT take away from parental rights on how to parent. It helps the children grow up in a much better, happier atmosphere without fear of being hit, and helps adults learn that hitting children is just plain wrong. It is not stripping the parents of ways to discipline, it IS stripping them of ways how to hit their child and hopefully forcing them to use other more effective and more gentle ways of parenting.

      If you are really so frightened of letting children get the right not to be hit and this causing the downfalll of civilisation as we know it … I suggest you look to Europe, and especially to Sweden where it was banned over 30 yrs ago .. and where the levels of violence and abuse are down so low, that they are closing prisons. I would really like to know what on earth pro spankers like yourself think we do out here in Europe to parent our children and don’t have the right to hit them !

      BTW, I am 60 yrs old and a grandmother, with children who are now great, gentle adults with children of their own. None of whom were hit .. and all of whom know hitting is wrong period. Unless in self defence or defence of another. My parents lost my trust, respect and love from the first time they hit me .. and they never got it back. I don’t trust, respect or love anyone that hits me or even tries to do so. Why would I ? Why indeed .. would anyone?

      Liked by 1 person

      • cthebean says:

        Tealrose1 thank you for your comments and I must say that I appreciate your passion!

        Like

      • Virgil Banowetz says:

        Re:
        My parents lost my trust, respect and love from the first time they hit me .. and they never got it back. I don’t trust, respect or love anyone that hits me or even tries to do so. Why would I ? Why indeed .. would anyone?

        Ok, TealRose, you’re 60 years old and have not yet forgiven your parents for doing what most parents have done for eons. Right of wrong, your failure to forgive has made you bitter. It they are still around, I hope fixing that is on your bucket list.

        That said, maybe the Swedish way is worth looking into. At first it would seem that their Total Fertility Rate (1.88 in 2014) would make their whole experiment in parental control moot in the long run. But then, it did not get worse since 1979 when they banned corporal punishment of children, so there are other more dominant factors in play. I just have a problem with more government agents controlling our lives. I get annoyed with them for roaming around the neighborhood trying to catch people replacing their shingles, sheds, and decks on their own property without their permission. Harassing me for hurting my child’s feelings seems even worse. That’s just me.
        Here’s an article from a CNN interview about Sweden and the ban on corporal punishment with reference to
        Robert Larzelere on how far control should go and how much should be left to the good sense of parents.
        http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/09/world/sweden-punishment-ban/

        Like

        • tealrose1 says:

          Did I say I hadn’t forgiven them ? No. I have. But I still can’t NOT remember the pain and anguish they put me through totally needlessly and that still impacts me today in many ways. I can forgive someone who hurts me, but sense tells me not to trust them. You don’t just forgive someone who … breaks your trust say by being your partner in business and stealing for decades from you … and then simply give them back the job and expect everything to be hunky dory. It isn’t.

          “I just have a problem with more government agents controlling our lives. I get annoyed with them for roaming around the neighborhood trying to catch people replacing their shingles, sheds, and decks on their own property without their permission. Harassing me for hurting my child’s feelings seems even worse. That’s just me.”

          While agree that agents checking out your shingles, sheds etc ….. I am only too pleased to see that government is (in most countries) not harassing the parents but making sure that the CHILDREN aren’t being hurt, abused, emotionally or mentally abused either. ie Giving them rights to a safe life like the rest of us. You feel that your ‘parental rights’ are being encroached on, well sorry … but I fee,l like many many others, that children have the right to grow up in a safe, nurturing environment and not in one where they are hit which is anything but nurturing. It is NOT your right to hit a child that is important. It’s a child’s right not to be hit that is important. The only two countries that didn’t sign the Rights of a Child by the UN are Somalia ………….. and the USA. Which says a lot. It’s time to think more about children and what you are doing to them… and what that means long term.

          Like

          • cthebean says:

            Virgil, Children are not owned by their parents. They are not property. Children have human rights and deserve care. Harsh and punitive punishment is not healthy for them, nor is it an enlightened approach. We need to do better.

            Liked by 1 person

      • Ruth says:

        I also admire your passion. And I can see that this is a sensitive topic for you. But your experience alone is not enough to prove that spanking is detrimental to a child’s development. I’m going to guess that your lack of respect for your parents was not just about the spanking. I say this because I was spanked, but due to my parents’ love for me I knew it was for a good reason. It would take a lot more than spanking for me to question their love and devotion to me. I would question their love if, on top of spanking, they also called me names, didn’t provide the necessities, didn’t show me affection, etc. Also, just because a child doesn’t understand straight away why their parents do something, doesn’t mean it’s not for their own good. The problem is, you approach this argument with assumptions:
        That all parents who spank are mean and unloving– they “abuse” their children.
        That parents use spanking ALL the time (most parents use it only in exceptional cases).
        That all children are like your own, and respond to gentle forms of discipline.
        That spanking makes children violent (there are studies that show this is a fallacy).
        That all children who are spanked resent their parents.
        That children have the capacity to understand and take ownership of their actions and the consequences early on (this is something they grow into, but they are not born with this ability).

        And I’m not sure where you got your information about Sweden because I have read studies that indicates child abuse superceded the U.S. after the ban on spanking was enforced, and there was also an increase in teenage violence. I’m not saying how you raised your children was wrong. I’m glad they responded to your gentle parenting. But I also don’t think it’s yours or anyone else call to tell parents how to do their job. After all, they know their kids better than anyone else does. I’m sure you would be outraged if someone had stepped in and told you how to parent– what if they had told you you were no longer allowed to send your children to their rooms for discipline, because it’s an abuse of their right to freedom? In New Zealand, along with spanking, it is illegal for a parent to take their child by the hand, and “force” them to go anywhere– “Oh, you don’t want to go to school? Well OK then!” The policing on parents is getting more and more ludicrous. It will reach a point where parents will not be allowed to have any authority or guidance over their children, which is only doing them a huge disservice. They will fall under the authority of the state, and federal punishments are far worse and longer lasting than those a loving parent would use. And while it’s true that parents do not “own” their children, they are responsible for them– legally, morally, and relationally– and I would say most parents take that responsibility pretty seriously.

        Like

        • tealrose1 says:

          I am going to write this in points … because you need to understand a few things.

          1) I can positively say, that my lack of respect was a DIRECT consequence of my parents hitting me.

          2) Would you say the same about a parent hitting a child… and about a husband hitting his wife .. with love ? No, of course not. When will you understand that hitting someone, anyone, but especially children does not equal love, no matter how much the person doing the hitting thinks it does. You can love your dog as much as you like, you hit it … and you will be seen by most outsiders as to be bullying, cruel, insensitive and even worrying as so many people who hit animals are known to go on and become violent or worse with other humans. Which is why police are interested in abusers and murderers backgrounds.

          3) Spankers like yourself seem to think that us non spankers have ‘easy’ children … that they respond to gentle parenting and that all is easy peasy. They most certainly often do not. Children are children, and mine were very, very hard to deal with. Very strong willed. Never mind that hitting them would have been wrong anyhow, hitting them would have only made things worse, and with good reason. Parenting IS hard. Children often ARE ‘difficult’ but they do not need hitting anymore than you do to learn. Non spankers just go on and use different ways to help their children grow up, instead of going for the ‘fast fix’ that teaches nothing good, and is only a band aid…… until the band aid falls away .. or the parent isn’t around.

          4) Spanking DOES make some children violent. And recent studies have proved that too. So who knows where and from when your studies come from !! These ones have been around for a while. ( Who in their right mind needs a study to know that hitting is wrong though is beyond me… and most of Europe)

          5) Yes, shortly after the ban in Sweden abuse did rise .. for a VERY short time. Now it’s the lowest on record and they are closing prisons due to such low levels of violence and abuse. So please…. go and find the up to date figures and information from Sweden … and the rest of Europe that has banned hitting children.

          6) If something is wrong … like hitting children, then I am all for the rights of the CHILD not to be hit, not the parents’ rights to hit their child. In your world … you would have parents able to do almost anything to a child in the name of ‘parenting’ or discipline. It is NOT about an adult’s right to hit .. it’s about a child’s right to not BE hit. Just like you.

          7) I do not expect the State to tell parents how to parent, (Although .. having gentle parenting lessons at school would be a good idea) but yes, I DO expect the State to stop parents using abusive parenting techniques – such as hitting, soap or hot sauce in the mouth etc. I don’t expect them to sit back and and igore the fact that children SHOULD have rights just as we do. Rights to safety, not to be hit, not to be emotionally or physcially abused, to be fed properly and to have good medical care.

          8) Most criminals in jail WERE hit. So no, hitting children is not going to keep them out of jail, far from it.

          9) Parents in countries where spanking aka hitting is illegal are not imprisoned unless they carry on hitting their children. If a teacher reports a parent for hitting a child, then the parents are sent to learn better, more gentle ways of parenting. And as I just said, if they continue to hit .. then yes, at that point there ARE consequences for the parents which is not good for anyone. Far better than being abused by your own parent though and having it ignored by state and others.

          10) It used to be legal and acceptable and even thought ‘necessary’ to hit one’s wife years ago. Fortunately for you and me and every other man and women hitting a spouse is now illegal and we are all much safer for it. Once we know better we do better.

          11) In the States hitting children by parents is legal in all 50 States. In 19 it is still legal to hit a child with what amounts to a weapon, ie a big piece of wood. Nice. Around 92% of all American children ARE still hit … and regularly … and it is patently obvious it is not working .. or are you blaming the 8% who aren’t hit … for the problems there ??

          Like

  7. search says:

    great post, very informative. I’m wondering why the other specialists of this sector don’t notice this.
    You should continue your writing. I’m confident, you’ve a great readers’ base already!

    Like

  8. Sueli says:

    Hi, I already know all of you… are you in feminist and women right group right ? When I were young,my mother didn’t spank me but she pinched or hit me on foot. I think it’s not really helpful as sometimes parent used this reason that is to discipline a kid as release tension tool and expressing anger to child.

    Some kids don’t understand why their parent hit them when they were young they only understand when their brain connected and can think,decipher,decode,encode in many different ways and the climate if it’s bring (+) they will be thankful later or it’s (-) they will feel sad,angry… All kids are different just like adults.

    Like

    • cthebean says:

      I am not sure who you are addressing when you say you know all of us…as I do not think we have met.
      Pinching or hitting is quite punitive and I am sorry that happened to you.
      Thank you so much for writing in

      Like

      • Thomas Johnson says:

        I, too, am confused as to the meaning of the run-on thoughts of Sueli. I think she under-age herself. My children, aged 27 to 43, have never had trouble smacking their kids.

        I am afraid the studies conducted in this field foolishly ignore important guideposts of the so-called, “corporal punishment”. Appropriate punishment is never to leave the child ignorant of the purpose. If a loving parent smacks a kid, he will never “walk away,” as one child said. So the studies that fail to differentiate between these and other questions fail their readers as well. The impact lessens, and the message becomes of diminished worth.

        Ignoring principle differences confuses the reader. Not differentiating between angry and calm parents weakens the value of the information gathered. How would that have changed the lessons learned? We will never know. I did not have the time to read the volumous responses from individual kids, but after about 35 of them I could easily tell the piece I was reading was without needed lines of demarcation or the wisdom of adult leadership.

        Do we really expect to put children in charge of training children? Would they not be simply training themselves. How foolish is that? We adults will have to decide that our years of life have taught us nothing since we are abdicating the control of child rearing to themselves. That has already been done in most every society worldwide. The participants are called orphans. Pets and children need to be trained. They do not need to be abused, but they do need to be trained.

        Like

        • cthebean says:

          I beg to differ with you about a reader’s comments being underage and run on. My confusion in response to that reader had to do with whether I had met her personally or not.

          Like

        • cthebean says:

          Thanks for taking the time to comment.

          Smacking or hitting, physical discipline of any nature.. is defined as corporal punishment..corporal meaning “of the body”.

          If I understand you correctly, you are in support of hitting or smacking children in order to train them.
          It also sounds like you believe that if children are not trained in this way that they will have no guidelines as they grow.

          You state that there is a difference between parental smacks for discipline purposes, and abuse.

          Do I understand you correctly?

          Like

  9. Claire says:

    Some of those kids answers were ridiculous. They are all terribly bad. No handle on the bedroom door? Come on. These are obviously the answers chosen as they are the worst examples and some of these kids are obviously being abused and I hope the peopple interviewing the poor mites informed social services .

    I know that a lot of kids would not have answered this way. Several of my students think it’s a good idea as we have covered it in social education so it’s not a fair representation. Who’s to say they are right or wrong, I have my own opinion but this is not a fair example as not all results are published. These are all sensational answers given to support the cause/argument.

    Like

    • cthebean says:

      Claire ..it would be good to make sure to read the background on this study and how data is gathered etc. You are correct, I think, in saying that your opinion does not necessarily reflect what may be true. (Nor may mine, of course.)
      It might be interesting for you to replicate this study and use these same questions to interview your students on this issue. I don’t know the ages you teach. These were 5-7 year olds…….

      Like

  10. Pingback: Episode 286 FPN Media Sucks Monday - The Family Podcast Network

  11. Jason says:

    Even if you were brought up being spanked and haven’t had any negative effects from it, why would you ever choose to use something that causes fear of physical pain while there’s so many other, equally if not more, effective ways. Doesn’t it seem that your kid will grow up better when he has learned through empathy in stead of fear?
    I can savely say that you can provide me with any situation and i can think of a way to deal with it that is more educative, insightfull and peacefull than spanking

    Like

    • Virgil Banowetz says:

      Ok, Jason, here is the situation:
      You are watching a 3-year-old child at a playground and are outrun by the child who runs into the street.
      This dangerous situation has happened before and the child was punished before but the child remains defiant. The child enjoys playing you for a fool. What do you do?

      Like

      • tealrose1 says:

        YOU the adult take the responsibility on yourself where it belongs! A child of 3 simply cannot understand danger. And you can’t beat it into them either. If you are outrun by a 3 year old – I suggest you need to remain much closer to that child ! You don’t need to punish the child, you need to keep explaining the dangers, showing them the cars etc, and keeping them close to you. A 3 yr old playing you for a fool ? No … just pushing boundaries and learning as we all have done and as we have all been programmed to do ! It’s hard wired into our brains.

        I as an almost 60 yr old grandmother simply cannot understand how a 3 yr old can out run you into a street, when you should be much closer especially if you know the child runs away at times, nor can I understand how you expect a 3 yr old to put 2+ 2 together and understand why you the loving parent just hit them, and that means they need to stop running away !

        Like

        • Virgil Banowetz says:

          The outrunning has to do with the child’s head start, my reaction time, and the short distance to the danger. The playground scenario should have been clarified. It was more like entering of leaving the playground or crossing the street. It can happen even with a very fast care giver. If you have not had this experience, you should not generalize and judge others who might handle it differently than you theorize. I think you do not understand how some very young children can understand danger and also become manipulative and defiant.

          Like

          • cthebean says:

            The spanking strategy is not working. The child continues to run away from you. The child doesn’t feel safe with you.

            Like

            • Virgil Banowetz says:

              Actually, in my experience and in the Larzelere study, it does work. The child is developing normally and no longer runs away in defiance. The child asks the adult for help in resolving conflicts.The child appears in all respects to feel safe with the adult.

              Like

              • cthebean says:

                this contradicts what you have previously said..that the child continues to disobey after being punished and continues to
                run away.

                Like

                • Virgil Banowetz says:

                  Sorry for the confusion. I will walk it through.
                  (1) Child defiantly runs into the street and is punished by words/go to your room (nothing physical)
                  (2) Child defiantly runs into the street and is punished by spanking. (he continued to disobey)
                  (3) Child no longer runs into the street and feels safe with the punisher.
                  (no contradiction)

                  Like

                  • tealrose1 says:

                    1) Child runs into street because he is too young to understand the dangers

                    2) Child runs into the street again, because he is too young to understand the dangers, and spanking doesn’t stop every child. Furthermore … the child still doesn’t understand why, and can’t understand why parents are hurting it.

                    3) Child may or may not run into the street again ~ and feels unsafe with punisher, because they can’t understand why their beloved parent is hitting and hurting them. Child is confused as parents seem to be lying saying that hitting isn’t allowed! Child grows older and is likely to be more violent, and less empathetic … and think that hitting another person whom they don’t agree with and is several times smaller than them is ‘ok’ and that there isn’t a better way to bring up children and therefore continues the cycle of abuse to the next generation. Child now adult thinks ‘ I was hit and I am fine ‘ but is wrong.

                    Liked by 1 person

          • tealrose1 says:

            Sigh…. I am a grandmother not a child. I do understand how easy it is to have a child run away from you. In fact, my sister was one who would run away all the time. Spanking her did nothing except enrage her and taught her nothing but how to be violent herself.

            I used reins when my children were tiny tots, and then kept very close when they were older. We are talking toddlers and pre school here. In your scene above, it is STILL the adult who is in the wrong, as if your child has dashed out once, then you should be even MORE attentive and be so close as to not allow this to happen. If you are unable to do that, because the park may not have a gate for example (And in this day and age I have yet to find one that doesn’t) then perhaps you will have to not go to the park and do other things with your child instead. As cthebean quite rightly points out ~ spanking is NOT going to stop the child. The child will still run away from you. The child will NOT feel safe with you and who in their right mind would if they are being hit?

            Unfortunately I believe that you may be a troll who is on this site to cause trouble and not someone who is going to learn that hitting is wrong.

            Like

            • Virgil Banowetz says:

              Re : Troll??
              Would this site be more useful as an echo chamber where the minority can talk to themselves and make each other feel good about their mutual agreement?

              Like

              • cthebean says:

                This site reflects a variety of views on spanking and parenting.

                The Lazerlere study stands pretty much alone in defense of corporal punishment.
                Research is overwhelmingly pointing to the harmfulness of this kind of discipline. Internationally.

                The Lazerlere spank is also very specific, clinical and contained.

                Once again..if you are experiencing problems with keeping a child safe it would be wise to seek guidance from a child development specialist who can help you figure things out.
                Actually…you might follow some of the advice that Tealrose1 has offered here.

                Like

                • Virgil Banowetz says:

                  Re: Troll/Tealrose1
                  When one of my friend’s friend on FB called me a troll, my friend took it all down and told me this behavior is unacceptable. That’s called moderation, although I am not suggesting that would be the best resolution here.

                  Since your response above provides nothing about the troll/echo chamber issue (only a reference to the advice of Tealrose1), I wonder if your view is “Those who disagree with the you are trolls and all we want here is an echo chamber to fire up the base.” Maybe there was as oversight; otherwise I guess I am not wanted here.

                  I hope you all enjoy your “discussions”.

                  Like

                  • cthebean says:

                    Virgil not sure I quite understand what you had hoped to accomplish here. Your views are welcomed as well as the views of many others. This does not necessarily mean that we will all agree.
                    I like to understand how people are thinking about things. You seem to be quite sure that the spank is not only effective but also humane…and you cite the singular studies of Lazerelere…even though these studies have been refuted by many in the field.

                    Like

            • Tealrose1, your sister is wise to be angry about that. Spanking, beating-one may be less extreme than the other, however, both actions are violent. Children have the right to not be hit.

              Like

    • Virgil Banowetz says:

      I suspect Jason could use some help about now. Maybe he is occupied with other things, or maybe he is still researching this, but it has been a week since I responded to his challenge. Is there a better method to deal with this situation other than a Larzelere conditional spanking? If not, then there seems to be a lot of writers out there who are making a lot of parents miserable via their guilt-trip/brat inducing over-statements. It seems sad when a vocal minority promotes an approach that is not only less effective but also more difficult. Larzelere conditional spanking is easier than any alternative because it solves the problem quickly. It would be nice if the pseudo-named writers, who call those who use this discipline “lazy”, would tell us the number of children they have raised using their “enlightened” approach.

      The Hebrew Bible advocates even more than just Larzelere conditional spanking? Jews and Christian might find the below enlightening. Others might find it controversial but should read it to see where the majority are coming from.
      http://www.gotquestions.org/spare-rod-spoil-child.html

      Like

    • Kudos to you, Jason.

      Like

  12. AH Bosch says:

    I acknowledge that some parents go far beyond loving discipline into the realms of what may be rightly called “child abuse”, and I accept it is important to address this and eradicate it

    However, the anti-smacking movement completely dismisses and ignores – and tries to criminalise – the millions upon millions of parents, like myself, who understand that smacking can be an entirely appropriate form of discipline. Anti-smackers may be coming from the right motivations, but their absolute black-and-white approach would turn loving parents into heartless monsters.

    I never truly understood the cliche “it hurts me more than it hurts you” until I started smacking my son. I hate doing it – I hate causing him pain or frustration by any means, such as refusing his every request – but parenting requires love, consistency, and loving discipline. I have seen the necessity of gentle smacking as one form of discipline. I have witnessed the benefits it has for my son’s behaviour and for our relationship. It asserts my authority as his parent, it teaches him about appropriate boundaries, it teaches him about the consequences of folly and disobedience, and it is always accompanied by careful explanations and discussion, and a hug. It is never done in anger. He is two. He does not doubt my love for him for a second.

    I appreciate that not all smacking is so controlled or gentle. But I wish the anti-smacking campaigners were not so shallow and near-sighted as to believe a legal ban on smacking would help anybody or solve any problem. It would not stop child abusers, who break the law already; it would only prevent good parents from parenting how they know best, and make criminals of those who, I guarantee, would continue to smack despite the law.

    Like

    • cthebean says:

      I agree that parents should not be demonized. In some of the countries where hitting has been outlawed, parents are offered support and parenting classes in how to guide children without smacking. It seems to be working very well. I can’t remember which country I read this report from but this info can be found on the website http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org

      Like

    • tealrose1 says:

      I am almost 60 yrs old. My parents spanked me becaus that is what was done back in the day. They lost my love, respect and trust and never got it back. It ruined our relationship forever. I learned only fear, pain, anger, hate and resentment and that they didn’t love me ~ and no, the post spanking ‘oh by the way we love you’ nonsense meant nothing to me. They had just hit me, which even I knew was wrong. They hit this gentle, quiet child and thought I was ‘ok’ with it … until I told my mother shortly before she died just how much damage they had done, and how much fear I felt as a child, how much I wanted to run away most of my childhood, and how seething I felt deep inside.

      Spanking IS hitting, and yes, it is abuse. One smack or a hundred. The difference only being that the severity of one being less than 100, but if someone slapped you once it would be deemed abuse. Even the dictionary says it is abuse.

      And the ‘This hurts me more than it hurts you’ feeling you get when you hit your son, is called your conscience .. and you don’t get that when you discipline a child and don’t hit them. Discipline means to teach not to hit. Hitting a tiny two yr old, who cannot understand and think like you, who cannnot possibly understand why their loving parent is hitting them and hurting them because they cannot put those two things together is horrible. Not to mention useless. Yes, you might get a short reprieve from your little one doing something you don’t like, approve of or is dangerous, but they won’t necessarily be learning the lesson, just learning gradually that you lie (WE don’t hit in this family), that you are to be avoided if they have done something wrong, how to avoid getting caught etc …. It’s much harder to raise a child gently and with care than to simply think that hitting them will cure all ills. It causes far more problems in the long run, the least of all teaching that child that hitting is ok if someone is smaller than you and you don’t like what they are doing. Problems that range from men thinking that hitting a woman is ok as it’s teaching them a lesson, woman thinking that being hit by their partner is ok as they ‘love’ them, myriad other emotional problems and can even lead to feelings of sexual abuse and fetishes. If you don’t believe that … then you should start reading now while you still have time to stop the spanking.

      And yes, banning spanking DOES help. I now live in a country in Europe where it’s been banned for just a few years and the children are happy and full of fun and respect. In Sweden they are actually starting to close prisons due to the lack of crime involving abuse and they were first to ban hitting children over 30 ears ago. Parents shouldn’t be demonised if they spank, however they should be stopped.

      Liked by 1 person

      • cthebean says:

        Thanks for writing Tealrose. I appreciate everything you said. Corporal punishment, spanking..has a pretty terrible impact on all of us. It has been surprising to me that so many defend this practice….

        Like

        • tealrose1 says:

          Thank you cthebean, I can’t actually understand the need for scientists, papers etc to tell us that hitting another and smaller human being is wrong. It just makes common sense to me. It horrifies me that in the States it’s still legal and that around 92% of all children there are spanked regularly. And people there STILL say stupid things like ‘Since we have been unable to spank .. ‘ or ‘We need to go back to the good old days …… and spank more .. ‘. Do they really think that the tiny 8% of children who are not hit are causing all the crimes ?

          We look askance and with worry at those who hit or harm an animal, as it’s known that this can be an early sign of worse and more dangerous behavioiur. How will those in the future look back at us for hitting our children ??

          Liked by 1 person

  13. Gracee Moon says:

    Parents spank, smack or hit children because the parents are lazy,and can’t be bothered to try and explain to children about doing the wrong thing.I knew a little boy who used to say to his mother” Can’t you just smack me like other mothers,and not send me to bed early for a few nights or not let me play my playstation games.” That little boy is now a man and says he remembers his punishment of not be allowed to stay up and not use his playstation and he still talks about it. So my point is children learn from being deprived of things,more then they learn from a being smacked. Smacking should be abolished, and maybe then child abuse would stop also, I believe that it is worth while to try. Children need to feel safe and loved, and smacking is cruel and scary for children. Life is very hard and children need to know that home is their little bit of Heaven, and they should always feel safe and loved there.God Bless All Children and Keep Them Safe.

    Like

    • Virgil Banowetz says:

      Your comment is overstated and too general. Please read
      http://humansciences.okstate.edu/facultystaff/Larzelere/mappvalsum.pdf

      Like

      • cthebean says:

        Virgil…This researcher was the only one on the project who came up with these ideas. Most studies, hand over fist, found spanking to be harmful to children. This one talks about a particular and specific kind of spank..It’s interesting…but it does not lead the research community with its findings.

        Like

        • Virgil Banowetz says:

          What I’ve seen so far from the anti-spanking researchers was generalities that may be correct but are not the best way to optimize your techniques. To stop all spanking may be ok but it’s like throwing out the baby with the bath water. The focussed Larzelere approach is more helpful and, as far as I know, is not contradicted by the others.

          Like

          • cthebean says:

            Hmm..think it was considered a dissenting opinion

            Like

            • Virgil Banowetz says:

              The dissention is not in the science but in its application to policy. You might say it’s “mininanny” vs “macronanny”. The macronanny group thinks in terms of public policy on child care. They make broad generalities that turn off many who know what it does at the mininanny level. The mininanny group thinks in terms of individual childcare by thinking, caring people. I have not heard anyone contradict Larzelere about the effectiveness of conditional spanking. The macronanny people just don’t want to talk about it because they see the loss in effectiveness as an acceptable cost if it reduces child abuse at the macronanny level. The bottom line is, “do we want to outlaw Larzelere conditional spanking and have child protective services to enforce it?”. Personally, I am ready for a Freedom Shift (per Oliver DeMill), not another big power grab by governments. It’s interesting that there are so many who would reverse that after experiencing ObamaCare.

              Like

              • cthebean says:

                The link below is a pretty thorough review of the studies. Lazerlere did some later studies..as have others. The way I understand it is that Lazerlere has made some discoveries and contributions to the research that suggests punishment-in general- has a detrimental effect on kids…and that on the spectrum of causality..conditional spanking is not always as detrimental as time outs or shaming etc…

                For me it is not a state policy issue…it is more in the realm of human rights which presents a shared conscience issue. Once we have discovered that something really hurts the growing human…I personally feel it should be stopped.

                It becomes an epistemological and morality crossroads.

                I think you will enjoy this….
                http://www.parentingscience.com/spanking-children.html

                Like

                • Virgil Banowetz says:

                  “Once we have discovered that something really hurts the growing human…I personally feel it should be stopped.”
                  If Lazerlere is correct about the effectiveness of conditional spanking (and no one disagrees with his findings as far as I know), then to stop this by the heavy hand of government is to do harm. Even if this harm is balanced by the benefit of fewer abused children, I do not like it; its a control shift. Your reference to human rights suggests that you want to kick this issue up about 4 levels from the family to the UN. Is this wise? If you still think it is, then would you rather add a bit of nuance to permit conditional spanking?

                  Like

                  • cthebean says:

                    Lazerleres research would have to be replicated by others and the findings would have to be undeniable within the research community. There’s too much contradictory data at this point.

                    Like

                  • cthebean says:

                    Agreeing about what we hold as a principle of human rights is a shift in power to the oppressed perhaps….not to any governing body

                    Like

                    • Virgil Banowetz says:

                      I’d like to think that the shift of power from the oppressor (the parent) to the oppressed (the child) would come when the parent is in his 80’s.
                      If a governing body should not have the power to stop spanking, then how would you go about stopping it?

                      Like

                • Virgil Banowetz says:

                  One of the factors that the macronanny people need to consider is sustainability. Of the 35 countries where children are protected by abolition laws from all corporal punishment, only 7 have a sustainable fertility rate above the often-quoted number for sustainability (2.1). Those that do have a higher birth rate are 3rd world countries which need the higher rate due to their higher mortality. (Israel is the one exception.) Even more alarming is the decline in fertility after enacting these abolition laws. If you plot the time since enactment and the fertility rate by country, the reduction in fertility is .047/year. This is based on fertility rates in 2013 for the 35 countries enacting laws from 1979 to 2013.
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_fertility_rate
                  http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org/pages/progress/prohib_states.html

                  It is well known that when governments take control of traditional family functions, people have fewer children. For example, when government programs make retirement more secure, people have less need for children to take care of them when they get old so they have fewer children. However, the decline of .047/year for the countries with abolition is double the current decline in the USA where the social net is growing but freedom still reigns. Could it be that when governments control how we discipline our children, people re-evaluate parenthood and the impact of government as follows:

                  (1) the joy out of parenthood is reduced
                  (2) the options are more limited so child raising becomes more difficult
                  (3) the enforcers present a risk to parents to which they do not wish to expose themselves. The chance of prosecution or even losing a child to child protective services is unacceptable.

                  The scenario goes something like this.
                  (1) A country enacts an abolition law banning all corporal punishment of children. The macronanny people win.
                  (2) A parent watching a 3-year-old child at a playground is outrun by the child who runs into the street.
                  (3) This has happened before and the child was punished before but the child remains defiant. This is a case of Larzelere conditional spanking.
                  (4) The parent spanks the child as the incident is witnessed by a child protective services agent who enforces the law.
                  (5) The prosecution is reported in the newspapers. The mininanny people lose.
                  (6) Readers decide, child rearing is not for them.

                  Is the macronanny approach a recipe for demographic suicide?

                  Like

                  • tealrose1 says:

                    Hitting a child is wrong. Period. If you don’t understand that you as the adult are responsible for the child, and if it has run out before and HAVEN’T stayed closer to the child, making sure it cannot run then you are the one at fault.

                    Perhaps we should try ‘conditioned spanking’ on adult criminals ? ah no .. can’t do that can we .. as THEY are adults. Only children in some places are treated like things instead of the tiny people they are.

                    Liked by 1 person

                  • tealrose1 says:

                    BTW, “Could it be that when governments control how we discipline our children, people re-evaluate parenthood and the impact of government as follows:

                    (1) the joy out of parenthood is reduced”

                    Are you seriously saying that because your child is given rights NOT to be hit, that will take away your joy of parenting ?? That .. seems to be rather telling and worrying ….

                    Liked by 1 person

                • Virgil Banowetz says:

                  In the absence of a response after 10 days to my previous post, I’m left wondering if there is any rational support for the macronanny approach. Can anyone defend making laws or signing treaties to forbid all corporate punishment of children and empower “child protective services” to prosecute parenting violations. If not, then there seems to be a lot of writers out there who are oblivious to the risks that the macronanny approach lays on the parenting/demographic culture. I suspect these writers are also making a lot of parents miserable via their guilt-trip inducing over-statements (not to mention the frustration of parents who are spinning their wheels with sub-optimal discipline)..

                  Like

  14. Regina says:

    The people who declare “I was spanked and I turned out just fine” make me cringe .It is not even logical to think that hitting a vulnerable not able to defend her/himself child is a harmless thing to do. We are teaching violence and that is why we have cultures riddled with violent behavior. Even scientific studies have shown that children who have been spanked have higher incidence of mental illness including depression and bipolar as adults . They are also more likely to have a tendency to need humiliation, sadism and/or masochism in their sexual behaviors to achieve arousal. THERE IS NO NEED and NO EXCUSE to spank children . I raised three children without spanking or otherwise corporal punishment and they are “just fine” . Please take the challenge and consider reading this article all the way through http://nospank.net/sexdngrs.htm

    Like

  15. These answers don’t really seem to be a very good argument against spanking to me. The kids seem to know it hurts, know they get smacked when they are naughty and know they can avoid getting smacked by being good. As long as spanking is used as part of a bigger parenting strategy then I don’t see a problem with it. Provided the child has no doubts that he or she is loved, spanking is used in moderation, and the child always understands why they were spanked then I think it is ok. There is a difference between spanking and beating.

    Like

  16. Taylor says:

    I was spanked as a child and I can honestly say I can’t remember any of those moments clearly, and I am the farthest thing from emotionally scarred from being punished like I should have been, possibly due to the fact my parents wouldn’t just slap me, they would tell me when it was going to happen, I’d get one spanking, they’d send me to my room, and a few minutes later they would come talk to me about why I got punished and they would make me give them a hug and we would say we loved each other. I do see just slapping out of nowhere pretty unneccesary.

    Like

  17. imwiththebeanguyonthisone says:

    It may hurt to hear, but your writing smacks of condescension. pun not intended. With comments like, “it is heartening to know that people have survived and flourished in spite of being hurt”, as if childhood spankings are some major handicap or heavy burden we carry around with us in our hearts. Let me be the first to tell you, I resent quite a bit of things my parents did during my youth, spanking is not one of them. How serious can it be if many healthy adults are now actually seeking out spanking as a form of pleasure?

    “Yes…many people have been spanked or have gotten paddled or licks in their lifetime..and most survived it.”. I would like to think that everyone would survive a spank, paddle or lick on their hand or bottom. This is were vilifying ANY physical punishment gets as out of hand as spanking has the potential to get. Punishment is a spectrum. It should be used proportionately and fairly. I realize there are instances of children being caned or hit to death. Clearly, that is some other deep-rooted psychological mess going on. and potentially alcoholism. the other problem is when you describe this punishment as “smacking”, strong smacking, say across the face or head, is likely not appropriate physical punishment either. It was likely not planned out. It was more than likely reactive on the part of the parents.

    Pain is subjective. And yes it can be worsened by feelings of anxiety that ANYONE young or old is bound to feel when they know they are about to receive a punishment. The fact that a child said that spanking feels like “falling from the sky”, while kind of sad, sort of, just makes me think that child has noooo subjective reference if that is the worse pain they have felt. a spank. or the child that said it feels like “broken bones”. Well kids, when you actually fall from the sky and break bones. perhaps you will think differently about the degree of pain they feel from a spank. Kids say the darndest things. A spank on the bum hurts no more than the act of falling on it, which, ironically, also happens when I child has made a “judgement mistake”

    The blog you referenced said this “If we spank a child we create a climate of fear. We break a bond of trust with them.”. I call bullshit. ANY punishment creates a climate of fear. this is not unique to spanking. You are bound to break your child’s trust. that is part of growing up. You will make promises you don’t keep. You may snoop through their belongings. You will lie to them when they ask questions about sex you may not be ready to talk about with them. BAM break of trust. The author of that blog states their mom used to spank them with a spatula. The child was so terrified they even wet themselves? Ok, clearly, spanking may not be for them. They sound very sensitive and so an alternate approach is needed.

    Just about any form of punishment is going to leave emotional scars. having your belongings being taken away, your money, your freedom. Being publicly shamed or ridiculed. One of the reasons humanity has collectively decided to “spank” or “smack” children as a form of behavioral education, is because they lack the cognitive abilities to reason and understand their actions in the context of a much greater and wider world.

    And why are we listening to these little children as if they are perfect little angels who have never inflicted physical pain on any other creature in their learning process? I’ve seen 2 year olds strike out at their parents and push over smaller children. As a child I watched other children beat on their younger siblings for no reason whatsoever, other than that they could. It was not even discipline. It is very common for young boys to hurt animals and insects. I would have loved if the above research and survey included the question “have you yourself ever pushed/hit/slapped/bit another person or child?”

    The thing we as adults should be up in arms about is instances where clear and obvious signs of abuse and emotional distress are masquerading as discipline. I don’t think that all forms of physical discipline deserve to be vilified. we can’t call abuse spanking like we can’t call torture interrogation. the differences would be extreme psychological anguish, extreme pain and serious injury

    Question: are any of you anti-spanking crusaders so strongly against it because of vivid reoccurring memories or nightmares from your childhood about cruel and vicious spankings, or is it because of some modern research you have read on your road to you yourself becoming a parent? curious.

    Like

    • cthebean says:

      Listen..times are changing. The more we learn about the effects of hitting and spanking, the less acceptance it is receiving. It is unlawful in approximately 35 countries around the world . It used to be lawful across the board in the US to paddle, smack and hit children in school, and it is no longer. Things we believe now we will not always believe to be true or correct in the future.
      This has been a culture that has embraced spanking as a reasonable and right parenting strategy. Many folks have been spanked or have done their fair share of spanking because the belief has been that it is a reasonable thing to do. Things change. This is changing.
      We’ll have to come up with something different to handle those fierce and dangerous two year olds.
      Thanks for writing and sharing your views.

      Like

    • cthebean says:

      Recent studies are finding a correlation between corporal discipline and aggressive or violent behavior in children. This article briefly outlines some of the findings.
      http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx

      Like

      • Virgil Banowetz says:

        We all need to actually read the above link provided by cthebean (thank you) and see that many of the opinions on this forum are overstated representations of what the studies show.

        One of the references therein deals with the “chicken and the egg problem”, i.e. cause and effect, which is critical to making policy judgements. Correlation alone is not sufficient. This must-read has the following title:

        Comparing Child Outcomes of Physical Punishment and Alternative Disciplinary
        Tactics: A Meta-Analysis
        by
        Robert E. Larzelere2 and Brett R. Kuhn3
        March 31, 2007
        which is linked here:
        http://humansciences.okstate.edu/facultystaff/Larzelere/mappvalsum.pdf

        Two key points from this report are:

        (1) “The outcomes of “customary” physical discipline were neither better nor worse than for
        any alternative tactic, except for one study favoring physical discipline for reducing
        drug abuse. They also identified an optimal type of physical discipline, called
        conditional spanking, which led to better child outcomes than 10 of 13 alternative
        disciplinary tactics and produced outcomes equivalent to those of the remaining
        three tactics.”

        (2) “.., a two-swat nonabusive spanking is one of the most effective disciplinary tactics when 2- to 6-year-olds respond defiantly to milder disciplinary tactics, such as time out.”

        It would seem that parents who exclude conditional spanking are likely using sub-optimal techniques from the point of view of effectiveness, not to mention their own piece of mind.

        Fortunately, the inability of people to think clearly on this issue and to parent in an effective way is regressive in a demographic sense. Avoiding the more effective methodologies actually increases stress in both the short and long term. Those using the “enlightened”/feel-right techniques probably know in their heart that they cannot do their part reproducing the 2.6 children needed to maintain the population. Having more than 2 children is too much stress for most of them. Is it any surprise that two-thirds of Americans still approve of parents spanking their kids. (Apparently most with the time to post on this forum are from the segment who do not.) Neither demography nor real enlightenment is likely to change that.

        Like

  18. Blair says:

    I understand the arguments for and against. However I feel like this lacks Merritt as evidence that kids shouldn’t be smacked. If you kept sending your kid to time out because they’re naughty they are to think negitively about that. And I believe that we should not disregard the emotional over the physical. As long as it’s not excessive or abusive Both psychical and emotional then I think a child can positively Benifit.

    Like

    • ..... says:

      I agree and it’s a drop in the bucket in ways. Don’t want your kids to feel harm. Well here are some common expression kids express as well.

      “Why isn’t daddy/mommy here for dinner, I don’t see him when I want too”. (Work, divorce, etc)

      “I don’t like the bus ride, the other kids can be mean” (parents wants the child to goto a good school)

      “My friends don’t have bed time now” (that parent had a bed time of 7 growing up, my child will sleep when they are sleepy)

      “How come we don’t go on X trip or do X thing” (that parent decided to go places his family never did)

      “So and so get to play video games, have a cell phone, etc, etc” (that parent never had or allowed tv growing up)

      “My friends get X allowance, why can’t I”(they are trying to educate about money and didn’t have growing up)

      “It’s sounds like daddy’s hurting mom in her room at night”

      ” so and so is aloud to say X bad word”

      I count 50/50 here in these comments. 50% say it’s happened to them and they are fine. A few that it had lasting effects and several statements to say it’s just bad. While the majority are doing things they didn’t have and “believe” what they are doing now is better than their own upbringing or perception there of.

      A drop in the bucket because absolutely everything in your child’s life is included in there upbringing and how they deal and handle situations. The more you sensor, reason, shelter, the more you are not preparing your child for the harshness of reality.

      How, when or if spanking is right is the conclusion everyone here and everyone who are running these studies , have come to.

      If they are that harmful, then everything listed above is harmful or more harmful so take the next step to that utopian society which has been the dream of many here. Guess what!! The more enforcement you get from society, the more communist you get.

      Like

  19. Alex says:

    I was not spanked as a child. Instead, my parents would regularly have open conversations with me about right and wrong behavior, why they had the rules they did, and why it was in my best interest to follow them. I have never been arrested, never expelled from school or suspended, only two detentions my entire life. It’s not that I was never punished for my wrongdoings or that anyone coddled me – it’s simply that I did not feel the desire to do things that I knew would get me in trouble. I appreciated my freedoms and did not want them taken away.
    I am personally against spanking in my own household. That being said, I cannot fault another parent for their own personal beliefs about (light) spanking. So long as it does not cross the line into abuse, I think that it is a personal decision on whether or not you utilize it in your own household. I honestly believe that by classifying light spanking as abuse, you are demeaning those punishments that have actually earned that title.
    Essentially what I am saying is, these things are not always black and white and by trying to make it so, there is actually no facilitation of effective dialogue.

    Like

    • imwiththebeanguyonthisone says:

      how did you know what “trouble” was when the outcome of any wrongdoing you committed was “open conversations”? Did your parents ever take away any of your freedoms as a result? early bedtime? no dessert? I’m curious

      Like

  20. Megan says:

    Thank you for sharing these powerful words. We have no right to inflict violence on those who depend on us. Discipline means teaching, not pain!

    Like

  21. Steve Woolley says:

    Pardon me but “Fuck You.” Being spanked as a child most likely kept me from prison. Does it hurt, Of Course! That’s the point. Not all of us respond well to positive reinforcement. Some need the negative. Lord knows I did. Golly, if we spare every touchy feely issue with our children and go ‘with the flow’ we would end up with Dr. Spock’s version of utopia. Even he’s admitted how screwed up that is. In other words, spoiled brats who have zero concept of what is correct, incorrect or acceptable in society. I thank my parents for being Parents. Were they always perfect? No. But they cared to discipline… that was enough. Ergo, I’m not incarcerated. Thanks Mom and Dad for daring to discipline me with corporal punishment.

    Like

    • cthebean says:

      Hey Steve..once again…glad to hear you are okay. It doesn’t make hitting kids okay even if you personally are sure about the things you state.

      Like

    • Anonymous says:

      Okay, Steve Woolley, you that stated “being spanked as a child most likely kept me from prison.” Apparently, it did not keep you from other levels. You’re cursing obsessively on a the comment section of an author who simply states that she believes there is other discipline methods that function as well as spanking. Spanking will not scar you for life, and the author did not state her opinion is the ultimate truth. Honestly, it’s just an article. Calm down.

      Like

    • Yuiru says:

      Which is why you open up with “Fuck You”, don’t care to use facts are logic but jump to silly anecdotes and “look at me I needed to be spanked!” Of course your ideal of logic here is might makes right. I feel sorry for you, you were a brainwashed hurt child, and it shows.

      Like

  22. Anne Mehr says:

    I must say I enjoy your logic here.

    I’m hearing you say that because it’s wrong to “spank” adults, we shouldn’t “spank” children.
    So, in true logic, since the consequences for adults who do wrong (ie. steal) is jail, we should likewise jail children.
    Ah, I get it.
    Equality!

    Like

    • cthebean says:

      No..not saying that we should treat children that way. The argument I would put forward is that hitting children needs to stop. It’s as simple as that. Stop hitting children. All children have the right to not be hit.

      Like

    • Y.R.G says:

      No no. We should treat children with the compassion of knowing that they are children and more understanding of context than you might with an adult because children’s brains are still developing, and sometimes the things children are physically harmed for are things that are developmentally appropriate behaviors. Yes though a small child *can* go to juvenile hall depending on the severity of a crime. The logic makes perfect sense, No one would ever strike another adult, that’s assault. The consequence for adults in civilized society is not flogging. It’s not even legal to hit your dog.

      I seriously cannot understand why people are so adamantly defending their right to hit their kids.

      Like

      • Blank says:

        No one should. I keep reading shouldn’t hit another adult but it happens. Parents are to children, and other than the relationship and bond, are no different than the police are to the public. We all know there is a clause or situation that requires physical contact. Spank, constraint, even pressure points inflict some sort of harm.

        Everyone’s interpretation of spank is different due to upbringing and media over the years. Where, when, how and how often are tremendous factors which play a part. Some of us relate to a slap on the wrist or bottom, just enough to gauge our ever evolving focus as a child, while others see it as a postmortem trial where the judge/jury and executioner is waiting with the belt/stick/cane/etc to do the deed.

        For those who weren’t spanked. Wow, great parents but;

        A. Truly. How open are you with your parents now? Are their words still golden to you. Would you tell them the day you get diagnosed with an STD, or would they be the ones you call if you went to jail?

        B. ask you parents if the ever, Ever put harm to you, intentionally. Even a slam on the hand if you tried to grab the open flame as a 2 yr old. I would be impressed if they didn’t.

        Like

        • Yuiru says:

          B. so the parents are so lazy and clumsy they have to intentionally cause physical harm to a child to prevent… physical harm? Instead of just picking the child up or keep their hand away?

          Like

      • Yuiru says:

        Their “right”?

        Like

    • Anonymous says:

      Your entire logic is also flawed. Let us say a child throws a tantrum and starts sobbing. Or breaks a vase. Clearly, an adult’s version of wrong is entirely different from a child’s version if he/she is growing in a stable home. To be clear, stealing, rape, etc, is not the equivalent of a tantrum or whining to get a toy of some sort. You simply can’t group that together, if they’re both technically “wrong.”

      Like

    • Yuiru says:

      No. You obviously aren’t well versed in logic because those aren’t even equivalent.
      More like:
      Since it’s wrong to “spank” adults, we shouldn’t “spank” children.
      So, in true logic, it’s wrong to steal from adults, so we shouldn’t steal from children.

      You jumped from what’s wrong, to the consequences of what’s wrong. Fallacious and naive of you to do.

      Like

  23. I was ‘smacked’ as a child for misbehaving or disobeying. In the moment i was angry or upset but that passed within a couple of minutes and i always knew it was because i’d done something wrong and there had to be consequences. The only time i thought it was unfair was when i was accidentally blamed for something one of my sibling had done. I did not feel humiliated, i always trusted my mother and i still do, i am very close to my mother and my whole family, i practically see her every day and would do anything for her as she would me. I am not damaged, i am not harmed- i have a degree in Psychology with honours, i have 3 wonderful children and i’ve never done drugs or anything bad and i have never been to jail or arrested. I live a happy life, ive never broken any bones or had any accidents or been in trouble- i believe that the few times i was smacked to teach me a lesson actually did benefit me and i will do so with my children if i feel it is necessary. I see all the teenagers these days and it DISGUSTS me, it really does, they get into trouble all the time, harass people on the streets, have sex, drink, swear at their parents and actually tell their parents what to do- all because they have not been disciplined at all let alone properly, once you’ve let your child get away with things and they have control over you their lives are ruined. Children are children, adults are adults- children can not go to jail or have a big debt if they’ve done something wrong so they do need to be taught in a different manner- adults have all these consequences to deal with unlike children so to all the smart asses saying ‘why hit a child if you don’t hit adults?’ there you have it. Some children do need it. I got to a point where i was explaining, talking, ranting on so much about why something is wrong and they shouldn’t do it again that they started to carry on playing and talking while i was telling them off- you do need to get their attention sometimes with a little smack or they will never learn or listen. I will NOT let my children turn into the types of teenagers we have running around ruining society that we have now. PS i’m 29

    Like

    • cthebean says:

      I find your perspective troubling. Did you know that the US population most victimized by crimes are children up to 18 years old? Are you aware that crime rates are going down even as the population grows larger?
      You seem overly angry and frightened by the alleged behavior of young people. So if we can’t send them to jail we should be allowed to hit them? While there are some in all age ranges who behave badly, the statistics are telling a very differnt story about society than yours.

      Like

      • I find it interesting that the Chinn assumes that these teenagers were never smacked or punished. That’s the thing that people seem to miss. Just because they were anecdotally ‘smacked’ now and again does not mean that the very people they think are delinquents were not and that if they had been it would ‘fix’ their problems.

        Since we’re talking anecdotally, a good friend of mine was beaten with a belt for every wrong her father felt she’d done. She was the one who did drugs, had sex, and was generally a ‘troubled’ teen. She blames the beatings for low self esteem and acting out.

        Like

      • Sam says:

        I have read a few of your reply comments and am of the opinion that no matter what people say you will try to push your opinion onto them.
        I as a child got spanked by a belt, because my sister told my mom spankings did not hurt. My husband’s mom used a wooden spoon on their kids. Do I agree with either of those tactics, no, but if I have gone through 3 strikes which include: a verbal warning and explanation of why not to do something, timeout or lose a privilege with another one on one explaination why something is wrong, a last this will not happen again and timeout or lose of privilege and my kids still do not get it I am going to spank their butt 1 to 2 times and explain after words that I really dislike doing that, but they made the choice and they knew that was the cons equence for I always warn them before hand. People learn differently. My kids are night and day with learning styles, personalities, likes interests, and so on. You need to understand and respect other people’s opinions.
        Yes, extreme cases should be reported and I have reported a few myself, but that is when bruises, cuts, kids being scared or paranoid, not being fed or washed and such is happening. Not because they got a swat on their tush for a major bad choice.
        Open your view a bit and try to understand. If you had tried Everything else you could think of and it still wasn’t working right would you sit back and watch your kid run in the street and almost be hit by a car or would you grab their hand pull them closer and give them a spanking with tears running down your face knowing you could have lost them forever? If you even then you said no spankings and they ran out again and you lost them….would you say 1 spanking has no place in this world?

        Like

        • cthebean says:

          It is very true that I oppose corporal punishment of children, and will continue to do so.
          This forum has been open to people with very different views.

          Like

        • tealrose1 says:

          No, I wouldn’t have ‘grab their hand pull them closer and give them a spanking with tears running down your face knowing you could have lost them forever?’ because I also know that fear of any kind tends to make the brain ‘blank out’. I could never understand my own mother who hit me when she had accidently lost me in a store etc because I also knew that hitting anyone is wrong and that I watched other parents who never hit their children simply hug their children and be happy they were safe.

          And yes, if I didn’t spank my child and it ran out in the traffic and was lost, I would STILL say that spanking has no place in this world ~ because even spanking doesn’t have a guarantee of obedience or understanding. However, I would have hugged my child to me, told them how much they had terrified me (and yes, I know toddlers might not understand every word) and then have kept a much closer eye on them. Actually when my children were toddlers, I used reins just as my parents had with me, until they were old enough to be unlikely to just run off. When they were older and if I had caught them running across the road without looking etc. I would have explained again how dangerous it was, and then made sure that I walked with them to school, the friends house etc … and they would soon learn to remember not to run out.

          Noticing how many adults are jay walkers these days, and who almost fling themselves at times under my car wheels, I could wrongly assume like yourself that these adults hadn’t been spanked as children. Or do we need a study done on these jay walkers and ask them all if they were spanked? I am feeling they probably all were. 92% of all American children are spanked regularly today, and the violence levels there are incredible, along with the highest number of criminals in jail.

          Liked by 1 person

  24. Anonymous says:

    Well, if it hurts (and it does), then the little child will think next time they act out. Knowledge through pain. Child abuse is something else entirely.

    Like

  25. ashley says:

    Yeah right! Because the UN is the perfect example of how to protect children!

    Like

  26. Rob says:

    Inasmuch as the children overwhelmingly called smacking or spanking by the term hitting, isn’t it time we stop calling it spanking or smacking and use the word the children recognize the practice to be — HITTING? Next time you feel the need to sit your child down and explain that because of their action you must “discipline” them, be honest and tell them you’re going to hit them. They’ll understand, won’t they? Hopefully you’ll be enlightened and lack the fortitude to follow through.

    Like

    • cthebean says:

      Yes..let’s call it hitting.

      Like

      • Virgil Banowetz says:

        Yes! Why not call it hitting? Lets take all the nuance from the concept so we can feel more intelligent about the subject and march together in Orwellian lock step. “Four legs good, two legs better” comes to mind. But maybe if we have the enlightenment or arrogance to say all generations before us did child rearing wrong, we should do it intelligently and site studies that are rigorous and useful.
        I suspect the cutting edge question for many or the parents reading this forum might be, “how do we deal with a child doing something dangerous with defiance”. Child abuse is a bit off-topic, it’s already illegal. Discussions in the gray area between these two areas can go on forever. But if those who think themselves enlightened enough to tell the rest of us that all generations before us did child rearing wrong could just focus on this one question maybe we will find some common ground.

        Like

    • cthebean says:

      Here is someone who agrees…have you all seen this? It came out Christmas Eve and caused quite a discussion storm.
      http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2013/12/23/spanking-your-children-is-hitting-your-children/

      Like

  27. Andie says:

    I love how so many people say that they were hit as children, but they are fine…as if it makes it ok to do it, since some people survived. Smoking cigarettes has a wide array of terrible health problems, but you don’t hear people who have friends who’ve smoked without health problems say it’s ok to smoke, now do you?

    Like

  28. Anonymous says:

    I was spanked as a child, but only when I pushed my limits and deserved it. I also have three younger siblings (all within three years of age to me) who were spanked as children. All of us are well adjusted citizens soon to all have college degrees. We knew spankings were worse case scenario when we really did something we shouldn’t have (usually fighting with each other). In the real world, if you do something bad, you will be punished. I think instilling the idea of a more severe punishment young when it’s just a quick smack to the bottom is much better than letting them figure it out later when it could be jail. Yes we had lots of time outs, or my mom’s particular favorite when we fought was to make us sit on the couch together, but we knew what the boundaries were. We knew when our behavior had warranted a spanking even before we got it. But our parents also made sure that we understood that they loved us, that punishment is only for bad behavior, and on the flip side good behavior results in rewards. I wouldn’t trade in one spanking I received because I honestly believe it was a part in becoming the strong individual I am today.
    Also to corroborate with a comment I saw above, it was very common for my classmates to choose getting licks to the alternative getting detention just to get the punishment over with. It actually came to a point where teachers started to put “no licks” as an option so that they had to do the detention instead of getting spanked. Honestly, if I’d ever gotten in trouble at school, I’d probably have done the same thing.

    Like

    • cthebean says:

      Yes…many people have been spanked or have gotten paddled or licks in their lifetime..and most survived it. This argument of “I was spanked and I am fine” is a common one.

      The “real world” argument is often articulated as well. This is one that I find confusing because, first, we all live in the world and it is very real.

      We may have different perspectives and not agree on how to navigate in the world, but certainly we can strive to figure out what principles we all would strive to live by. I mean..there are terrible things that happen in the world and we have continually made social pacts about what we will tolerate and what we will not. Women have survived terrible oppression. Now we have the right to vote because people stood up to change things. Hitting women is no longer viewed as acceptable. Slavery and terrible brutality used to be allowed. No longer.

      I wonder how you think about the wealth of information and tested research on the harm that violence against children causes. And I wonder how you think about the people who are adults and who tell us they were terribly harmed and who still live with the reverberations of spanking.

      I would like to add that it is heartening to know that people have survived and flourished in spite of being hurt by the ones charged with their care, and who thought hitting was the right way to take care of them.

      And what do you think about alternative parenting strategies that preclude corporal punishment…which spanking undeniably is?

      And how can the heart stay hard when a child voices that being spanked is terrifying. Like falling from the sky?

      Like

    • PassingBy says:

      “I was spanked as a child, but only when I pushed my limits and deserved it.”

      I am curious what you believe “deserved” physical violence. Would you smack a guest in your home if they were to do the same things you were smacked for as a child? If not, why not?

      Like

      • Monique says:

        My husband used to say the same thing when I met him. He says the only times he was spanked were when he was playing with a lighter at 4 yrs old and almost burned down the back porch. Or when he was playing in his dad’s truck at 3 and put it into reverse and it hit a tree. I told him those are things that should have never happened with better supervision! You don’t spank a 3 or 4 yr old for having access to lighters and cars, you supervise them better, lock your car door, and remove dangerous items from their reach! He started to understand and now believes there is no reason to ever spank a child.

        Like

        • Steve says:

          Humorous. To append;

          And you wrap your sharp corners with bubble wrap, you guide your children for every step they make because they might fall. You sterilize absolutely everything so they done’t catch the flu and fail their immune systems. You make sure they wear full body protective gear when they play in the play ground or ride their bike. You hover around the playground just incase they get in a situation that you need to dissolve because they may not know what to do. Why not? You don’t want them to get hurt right?

          I can go on and on but the overwhelming argument here is to not smack or smack but if it’s justifiable based on the situation. So many adults forget the inner dialog we had as children. What happened at the time of punishment? How long did it take you to reflect an understand a lesson is learned. So many comments justified when they were spanked as a child and all understood later that they, as children and previously educated, broke that limit of tolerance. And in most circumstances the product of not doing it would be tragic. Do you seriously believe in such a sheltered life?

          Humans are emotional and irrational and when the two are combined, education and experience may not be the first thing that comes to mind. Yes the more education, the more the lesson is expressed, the better the odds that those lessons will be reflected upon when the time matters. But that means that each person here believes that they, with their limited knowledge and best efforts are “right” and “know” better when in all reality, no one really knows. Let’s the studies begin, let the bigger picture be drawn but don’t believe that one solution fits all.

          Because in the end , the one who portrays and expresses the better point of view, whether it’s a law maker, a reverend, a judge or the guy coaching your little girl into the back of the van, wins over your attempts at education or discipline.

          Like

          • cthebean says:

            So are you saying that if we don’t spank children that they will not learn to do the right thing? Are you saying that cigarette lighters should be left around and that we should smack kids for being curious about them?

            Like

            • Anonymous says:

              Exactly! The cigarette lighter shouldn’t have been left around in the first place, not the unlocked truck. Children are curious and will get themselves into all sorts of trouble, yet you want to punish them with physical violence because of your neglect?

              Like

              • Anonymous says:

                *Nor the unlocked truck

                Like

              • Anonymous says:

                Parents do not have 50 arms, people. They can only do what they can do. They cant prevent every injury/sickness in the world.

                Sure, parents can lock their cars, keep matches and lighters and knives away from their kids until they’re at least 8 or 9. But they cant keep a kid in a room with no hazards and give them just enough exercise time walking in a special area just so they cant get hurt. I have an overprotective mom. I’ve missed out on so much of my life because she was too worried about me. I love that she cared so much, but her plan TOTALLY backfired. Now she’s learned and she’s only minorly overprotective over my brother, who has lived a much better life.

                As for spanking, i dont see why there’s any debate on it. I know people who were spanked and turned out great. Spanking. Does. Not. Scar. You. For. Life. Completely screaming at them does. I think parents need to look at things in a completley different way.
                Sorry if i fail at spelling, im only 12…

                Like

                • cthebean says:

                  Screaming is not good for sure. As a matter of fact…punitive behavior toward children can be very harmful indeed. There is much literature on this site to access and think about in terms of spanking being harmful. There are many who have shared their personal stories about the harm that spanking caused in their lives.

                  Like

            • steve says:

              nope, I’m saying that any ones reasoning can be justified “in good measure” but the statement that “its always wrong” is absurd. There are circumstances where the point has to be made and it has to be make quickly before more harm can be done because a sting doesn’t compare to the outcome that, as adults, we know could possibly be.

              I ask, would you let a 4 year old use sharp tools and knifes? There has been a study that demonstrated the motor mechanic and self discovery aspect of letting children experiment (through a watchful eye) with these things. http://www.education.com/magazine/article/Let_Your_Kid_Play_with_Fire/

              Yes you have to supervise, and such but the point being made is where do you draw the line because one half of this discussion have taken proven points and valid arguments through family, loved ones and lifetimes of understanding and the other half is trying to demonstrate its a black and white issue with only their own wits or theories to back them up. Everything, ABSOLUTELY everything has a scenario or a inquisitional aspect to take into consideration.

              People have implied but no one has brought up that words and verbal abuse impacts ones emotions on a greater level than any pain can caused. A sting is a reminder to snap one out of their current method of thinking. Its the emotional aspect that has a longer dramatic effect. We need to separate the abuse (physical, mental or verbal), poor supervision or education from the fact that if a “smack” by the definition of diverting ones attention to the fact they they just did something very bad.

              What would you do in this situation? If the child knows where to draw the line, would it have had happen?
              https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDcQtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DVPzci9lwKmI&ei=Uj_sUsX7GrXLsQTP2IKYBw&usg=AFQjCNEx5-ZqOoaWeR79AdRdjusMc16XbQ&sig2=OsFT-aFT1zq9ELi_Dcu1YA&bvm=bv.60444564,d.cWc

              Even if its once, at the right time and only once in ones life time that a child knows you mean business and to stop the current situation immediately, the mere thought of it will dissolve those situations in an instant. Meanwhile on the other side of that bridge, you are still playing timeout and no cake for you.

              Like

            • Anonymous says:

              In some cases, learning the right thing may take too long. No, dangerous things shouldn’t be left around, but some kids, like I was, have a nasty habit of outsmarting parents best methods of keeping things away. I also had the tendency not to want to listen when my parents said not to do something that was dangerous because I was extremely curious and felt like I needed to find out for myself. To prove my point, I was the kid that stuck a finger in the fire and a thumb in a fan (I still have the scar) seconds after my parents told me to stay away because I wanted to know why my parents thought these things were dangerous. And a curious kid can move fast. In my case spankings became the deterrent in place of the fear that I didn’t have but should have had. I’d also like to add that my spankings were only one or two smacks on the most cushioned part of my bottom and no where else. I also had my hands swatted at, but it was usually to keep me from grabbing something that was about to hurt me, but those never were meant to hurt, and an apology always followed if they did.

              Like

              • Amber says:

                And that is exactly why parents should tell their children why not to do something. If children are still curious, teach them how something works. Children will also have to learn the hard way with some things and face the natural consequences. They’ve already been hurt at that point and so now know that you were trying to protect them from being hurt. Why then hurt them again just to say “I told you so so next time listen”? “Now you know why I said not to touch” works just as well without being hurt after just hurting themselves.

                Like

          • DP says:

            The inner dialogue I had as a kid was always to be angry at the adult. I was too angry to consider what I might have done. And in like fashion to how I was taught, I wouldn’t even let myself consider changing my behavior as a “reward” to adults who behaved that way so I didn’t tempt myself by mulling over what I might have done. I still grew up thinking spanking was okay and that I was just treated unjustly every time so the trick was to be more just. That was just because I didn’t realize there was any other way. I know better now.

            Like

        • Monique, only the ill-informed and uneducated would advocate spanking and/or other forms of physical punishment. Spanking, beating-even if one is less severe than the other, both involve physical aggression.

          Like

      • Ai Shin says:

        You don’t smack a guest in your home because you’re not responsible for the discipline and upbringing of that guest. You are, however, responsible for the discipline and upbringing of your own child.

        Like

    • Rob says:

      I and my siblings, too, were spanked (actually pants-down whipped with a belt) for the same things…”playing around.” However, I don’t recall ever having thought, “We better stop or we’ll get whipped just like the last five times when we did this.” We were having fun! The purposed thought of punishment seldom detered our behavior. Had we been reasoned with things might have been different. Who knows?
      As to running into the street or playing with fire, it’s not necessary to induce a Pavlovian response in a child for them to understand they could get hurt or that fire will burn. Treat them like the sentient human beings they are. Don’t train them like animals.
      Although by today’s standards I was abused, I don’t believe there were any lasting negative effects but I do remember thinking that I must have been secretly adopted. How else could I explain the way my parents treated me? Imagine my confusion when, at a young age, I came across my birth certificate and discovered they were my real parents!
      I can’t say the same for my sister and one of my brothers. They were severely effected by their perception of the family care and nurture we received.

      Like

  29. Pia says:

    A Parent is responsible to raise a child to be a happy, adjusted and independent fully capable human being. However there is a vast difference in todays material world where everybody wants to control everybody else’s Parenting and have a judgement about their child. Have we all not been so irritated by the parent who does not smack but will nag the hell out of their children with many manipulations and tacit threats. “Darling don’t do that ! I’ve told you already ,please don’t hit your brother. Please don’t put the screw driver in the electric socket because you might get electrocuted !! So sorry my Harry keeps biting your child on the face at kindergarten. etc etc.” It’s the new age bohemian way who after the baby boomers believe that we don’t hit. Guess what, people do hit people. Your child will be hit at school. That’s life. Without boundaries we are raising teens who believe they are entitled to anything they wish. A smack is not a beating and it is not done as a first resort. I was at school when corporal punishment was standard issue. Now, we have teachers being assaulted daily by those children who are not being smacked yet are enacting all types of violence on their teachers. This is a societal problem where we see violence enacted by authority on citizens around the world every day on our television screens as do our children. Their literature, their games and their movies encourage their smart arse attitudes and their bullying. Parents buy shot em games for their children It’s less about to smack or not to smack but repeatitis and the fact your child does not alter behaviour by your nagging but switches off whilst those around you realise the child is in charge. All packs have a leader and our children are being trained to be the product of the society they live in. Be objective and not closed to one way of thinking. With many children in creches and cared for whilst both parents are working we have a stressed society raising children. It is a time in history for us to really look at children’s right to a childhood that does not include being raised by creche workers but by their parents. Tiredness all around both child and parents including the many different boundary imposed in various places and restricted activities due to safety issues and parental work commitments leave children in a compromised childhood. I love the joy of children but honestly Parents need to look at themselves and see that their life choices to acquire more leaves the child deplete. There are no perfect parents and some children are terrible with their parents and great with others. Watching the Super Nanny having to pick up and put children on the naughty chair until they break ….could be considered violence and arrest. The parents call her in because they don’t have a clue how to set boundaries and enforce them. Reward works better than punishment and diversion and engaging children means we have to give our imagination and time to them.

    Like

    • PassingBy says:

      “Now, we have teachers being assaulted daily by those children who are not being smacked yet are enacting all types of violence on their teachers.” Where are these daily-assaulted teachers and how do you know the kids supposedly assulting them are not being smacked? If you’re going to claim lack of violence as a cause for violence, please substantiate it.

      Like

      • Pia says:

        Actually the statistic of teacher assaults were posted in an editorial in last weeks newspapers but the weight of evidence is that we can safely presume that some children who are smacked and some who have not been smacked have assaulted Teachers. This is not a space for pedantic nitpicking. The evidence shows that violence is an environmental issue that all children pick up on and enact whether or not they are smacked by their parents. People get hit by other people in our society. Fact

        As a nurse I have triaged many a teen who has stolen a car and crashed it….many who are drug affected and whose parents are clueless of their activities. Yes the naivety of social order. To smack or not to smack may have no effect on your childs behaviour in the future in a society of violence. Games of violence and media of violence.

        Like

    • cthebean says:

      Pia
      I have to say that I agree with you that a culture of violence permeates our lives beyond national and geographical borders. The issue is huge…and you are right that there are young people who see violence as a normal or acceptable way to solve problems or to achieve goals because of what they learn each day from their surroundings and from the macro-culture, and not because they have been spanked at home. It’s a deep deep problem.
      Thanks for commenting.

      Like

  30. Meow says:

    I was spanked for disobeying, and smacked inappropriate remarks such as “Old farts.”

    For the disobeying, it was because I had masturbated since I was a young child. I would be in my room minding my own business when someone would come in and then tell my parents about it, or my parents would find me and be furious with me. One, because they told me that “humping” made God unhappy and I shouldn’t do it anymore. After that, it was because they told me that and I kept doing it. I never stopped. I had to apologize to God constantly because of my guilt.

    I just remember being caught and then backing up into a corner covering my arse and saying things like “No, please no.”

    My grandparents also caught me doing this and they were the first people to ever not punish me for that. I am grateful that they didn’t.

    It’s very strange being punished for your own sexuality, and I do think it has effected my sexuality.

    Whenever parents mention wanting to punish their child for masturbation I plead with them to not do it. It is something I don’t hear people talk about very often but the parent is usually horrified. They should not be horrified, they should not punish them for doing it.

    Like

  31. Jezza says:

    Any parent who lays a hand on their child, whether it be a ‘Gental tap’ or a smack, only do so out of their own frustration! If you as a parent can not control your anger and frustration enough that you feel the need to smack, then you do not deserve a child!! And if your using ‘A smack was the only way’ then you are just LAZY!!!

    Like

  32. Michelle A says:

    I feel so sad and disturbed after reading this article and more-so after reading the comments. We don’t hit our friends when they displease us, or our neighbors etc.. Why our children? There is a lot of comments here that they don’t smack or abuse, they ‘spank’… These are just words.. All of which involve causing your child pain.. It doesn’t matter if they are varying degrees of pain, if it hurts your child physically or emotionally then it’s wrong! And how can an adult judge how much pain is appropriate for the child? You may think it was only a disciplinary little smack but you don’t feel it the way your child does.. I am also horrified at the comments about how long is ok until red marks disappear…. What the?! How can people continue these barbaric practices on little people they love?

    Like

    • Jezza says:

      Exactly, you don’t smack other adults (who are fully aware of their actions), but it’s okay to smack a poor defenceless child, whose brain has not yet fully developed! Sickening!

      Like

      • Joanne says:

        You are absolutely correct. I don’t hit my friends or extended family when I am displeased with them. I WALK away from them for periods of time, and I am not talking just a few minutes. Not possible with children, this reasoning has serious flaws. Perhaps instead of an all or nothing approach, that being either smacking is good or evil, perhaps we need to define what would be acceptable circumstances for smacking. An example would be where the child’s actions continually cause harm to others (such as biting and hitting repeatedly) or themselves (such as running into the street or sticking utensils into the electrical outlet) using such techniques to reinforce where natural consequences and time outs simply are not enough. I am a fan of both natural consequences and timeout, but there are times when immediate and memorable consequences are called for where it is dangerous to let things play out and let the children learn at their own pace. Not all smacking is done out of frustration and lack of control on the part of the parents. I am not a young mom any longer. I find the all or nothing approach to be counterproductive.

        Like

        • PassingBy says:

          It is possible for one to be away from one’s children for extended periods of time, and if the alternative is to hit them, that may be a better solution for both parties.

          What if an adult friend you cared about was doing something that you found to be dangerous? Would you smack him then – to “teach” him? To “protect” him?

          The justifications often used for why it’s “ok” to hit children boil down to an issue of respect and power. If you hit an adult, there may be legal reprecussions. If you hit an adult, they may react in a way that might end up pretty badly for you. An adult is risking something to hit another adult. Children are small, so they are less threatening, and dependent, so they don’t have the agency to leave or terminate the relationship in response. It is much less of a risk for an adult to use corporal punishment on a child. It is a lazy way for the parent to enact his will despite the child, not for the benefit of the child.

          Like

        • Y.R.G says:

          There are no examples of times in which physical assault of children is acceptable. I have elderly family members that spanked all their children. My grandmother, my great aunt, even my mother shockingly have come out against spanking. My 90+ year old aunt was telling me a story about her daughter taking the dangerous way home instead of the safe way home and she spanked her. She then turned to me and said, “There is no reason to hit a child. It doesn’t do them any good. We just didn’t know any other way back then.”

          Like

      • Pia says:

        Whether we hit other adults we see this happen. We also formulate opinions about the rightness of the use of violence when it occurs. Our children are going to experience pain at least some of the time. In a utopian society we would have support and a village to raise a child not a nuclear family and stress that did not exist generations ago. I believe that we raise our children in the real world and help them to have a good relationship with reality. With our responsibility comes consequence and honestly the time my ex-husband hit my daughter on the head for drawing on plans he left out on his desk I felt so sick I nearly vomited. I cuddled and kissed her and then after setting her in her room took a cricket bat into his office. I told him how that force would feel to her like he would feel if I hit him on the head with this bat. I also said if he ever touched her again I would not hesitate to do that to him. I said he was lazy and if he left his things there I would not stop her from drawing on them. I’ve seen his mother try to feed my daughter cake when she refused it. My daughter pushed it away onto the floor . She was two years old. She smacked my daughter. A family friend was there and told my mother-in-law off. I picked up my daughter and told my mother in law she was never to do that again. I set about getting ready to leave and when my M.I.L came to give my daughter a kiss but my daughter slapped her in the face. When my M.I.L objected I said that should remind her that she is retaliating to being hit. It’s the smacks that are not about an extension of frustration that are so damaging.

        Like

    • Michelle A, even if thee physical pain is temporary, there are greater negative effects. If an adult hits another adult, that is seen by the law as grounds for an assault and battery charge. When a parent does that to a child, it is called discipline. Total double standard there.

      Like

  33. Jaime says:

    I was spanked as a child and was afraid of people, as in extremely anxious in social situations, had low self-esteem for many years and well into my twenties felt unable to make decisions.I would call my dad and ask him to tell me what to do. As a resut, I want my son to be confident in himself and not feel the way I did, so I do not spank. I am a gentle disciplinarian and have an amazingly well-behaved 32 month old.

    Like

  34. Steve says:

    My parents were spanked WHEN THEY KNEW THEY WENT TOO FAR. Thier parents were spanked, in school, in church. I was spanked and each time was because I KNEW I BROKE A RULE, THAT I, AS A CHILD, understood I purposively broke. I have only spanked my now 10 yr old less than 5 times in her life and each time it was because she intentionally went against my word AFTER MUCH EDUCATION AND REASONING, into a realm where she could of done great harm to herself. Not like when I got spanked again as a child because my crying sounded like laughing during one of my mothers mental breakdowns.

    Now, is a tap on the hand each time your 3rd old reaches for your table knife or grabs the inside of a door jam while it’s open and can easily cut off his finger. How about when a child thinks it’s ok to continue to grab at a frustrated pet and you know that that pet will lash out. How about when it’s the 5 warning, IN A ROW, to not try to eat the cat litter. How about when siblings are jumping on the bed for the umpteenth time and one of them fall, like constantly warned, and breaks their collarbone. I can go on and on. Do we put them in solitude? Do we give them a fine? Do we take their liberties away? This barely works for grown adults, why does anyone think it’ll work for children.

    My second child has had even less., I just have to give him a look of disapproval, then cuddle him thereafter because my daughter, as a big sister tells him the tale of “You don’t want to get a spanking”.

    Whine about this all you want but fear controls everyone. Fear of parents disapproval or before knowing it’s truly a disapproval, the fear of pain. No different that the fear of God, the fear of phobias , the fear of a poor credit or not enough to retire on and finally the fear of incarceration.

    As humans we learn through experience and prefer it’s from education and reasoning but sometimes a reality check is required, not only for children, but even the highest, most educated people in power.

    It’s like it was said earlier. Do I give that sharp reminder to a child that unawarenly walks onto the street after being told. Or give them a reality check at that moment, they could of been in serious harm? 35years later, the “Smack” that told me to sit proper and be polite in a restaurant, is gone, but the lesson will forever be there.

    Look around and count how many times in public, at a friends, on YouTube, in the news you tell yourself “who the hell are their parents” and you’ll be surprised you be thinking how could you get the message across to them because I know you are thinking of more “corporal punishment” and “smacking” for those parents.

    But guess what, they are probably trying everything else just like the majority of people today but this has worked more better than worse for centuries and which has built all our countries and parliaments. Disobedience has been going out of control since Gen X. So to bluntly say it’s crueity, is just absurd.

    Like

    • Anonymous says:

      You are so sad if you think making your children fear you will even end in you having a positive relationship with them in the future. Sadly mistaken..

      Like

      • Steve says:

        On the contrary. Out of all the families I grew up with where they sang carols around the fire, had expressions like “now use you inside voice” and many of those strange parenting methods I was unfamiliar with. As a adult, I have to hear their constant whine about how frustrating it is to be with family, annoyances from their parents or other family occurrances. Where they either avoid or drag their feet during “required” special occasions I’m am extremely proud to say that not only my siblings but even my parents other grandchildren who have matured, keep on regular contact with them, go over to “hang out” (when we all live 500+ miles away), and tell them all the details in their life’s.

        Where’s the fear. My parents have the same opinions as before and speak their mind no different but there was alway the moment of truth. Around the age of 10
        – 14, we are given individual respect but still have to follow the rules. After we move out, we are adults and opinions are only suggestions.

        So where is this fear again? Why do friends comment on how comfortable they are with my family? Why are all my family members successful in life, no drugs, no crime?

        Blanket statements NEVER justify.

        Like

    • Jeff Harris says:

      agreed..discipline not abuse. it gets their attention. when I was little, I remembered not to do things. Mom & Dad said don’t but I pushed…after a spanking, I didn’t do that anymore. the world is full of different fears. they get more complicate as we grow. as adults, we don’t really get spanked but sometimes I’d rather have the spank than the reality.

      Like

    • Anonymous says:

      I am a 20 year old college student and when I was young I was spanked. Looking back at it i deserved it because I was blatantly being disrespectful. My parents would not spank me out of pure frustration they would do it because they had constantly told me that i needed to stop doing what I was doing and I disobeyed them. I thank them for doing that because it showed me that I will not be coddled in life and that I will not get away with doing whatever I want to do. That is the issue with my generation. They believe that they are owed everything and that there is no consequences for their actions. THEY DO NOT HAVE A FEAR FOR ANYTHING INCLUDING INCARCERATION. Look I think that spanking a child should be a last resort and it should always be on their butt. There is nothing wrong with it. I am 20 years old and I am by no means afraid of my mother and my father and I am not afraid that I will be spanked when i mess up with them. I have a very good relationship with my mother and am building a better one with my father. All of the people out there who believe that any spanking whatsoever is bad were probably ones who were ABUSED when they were younger but there is a fine line between discipline and abuse and you need to realize that.

      Like

    • PassingBy says:

      Steve, you sound quite frustrated even in your post, and pretty focused on control, so I can only imagine how frustrated you get when faced with challanges from your children’s behavior. The use of violence may be the easiest way for you, and the one that comes the most naturally, but that does not mean it is the best choice for your children.

      Like

  35. Kirsten says:

    I was spanked as a child but I honestly think it helped. It was only until I was old enough to enter school before I had enough cognitive function to understand cause and effect. My parents would tell me not to do something (such as sliding down the stairs on a pillow is one I vividly remember) my mother told me several times that I could get hurt if I continued and that I was being quite disruptive, when I repeatedly ignored her she finally got fed up and got my dad. They then both brought me into the living room and sat me down and explained the reason for why they were going to spank me. After they had they sat me up and made sure I understood why I have to listen to them (they would be very sad if anything happened to me and never wanted to see me hurt). They used it as a learning tool and because of this I have always been a more reasonable child. I never distrusted them and they always explained why things were they way they were and answered all of my questions.
    I really believe that when used and explained properly to the child, spanking can be a very effective teaching tool. When I got older (I think from age 6 and up) my parents then used different methods of punishment to teach these lessons because then I was able to understand them. Spanking should only be used for small disruptive children who won’t be able to understand other forms of punishment.

    Like

    • Yay says:

      They ‘never wanted to see you hurt’ yet they hurt you.

      Even loving parents hurt their kids emotionally when they hit them. They vent their frustration in this way simply because they do not have enough knowledge to find another way. Good parenting isn’t taught anywhere.

      Like

    • Anonymous says:

      They’re not arguing that it’s not an effective teaching tool. I’m sure hitting is very effective in getting what you want in the short term – this study is looking at long term effects in a large sample of people, and the results are not good. Sure, hitting someone gets them to stop the behaviour – but is that the best way to do it?
      Should I hit my wife because she is always leaving wet towels on the floor? I think if I just gave her one good punch she would probably never do it again.
      No? That’s not okay?
      Then why is it okay to do it to a child?

      Like

    • Kirsten, people who generally spank their kids clearly demonstrate a serious lack of patience regarding unwanted behaviors. The might makes right mentality is absolutely shortsighted. Spanking and yelling won’t always solve the problem of undesired behavior.

      Like

  36. Anonymous says:

    Justin Bieber should of been spanked.

    Like

  37. cthebean says:

    Chelsea,
    You honed in on trust. I agree with you. No matter how much they may love you -if you hit them-trust is gone. That is pretty sad.

    Like

  38. Monique says:

    I am not an advocate for spanking by any means. However, what some of these children are describing is being in a blatantly abusive household (drunken beatings,spousal abuse,hitting in the face, etc). I would think this colors a study. Are we putting children whose parents are obviously loving and attentive, but spank in the same category as children with obviously abusive parents? Is the study saying it doesn’t matter? I think we need to be clear on that point.

    Like

    • cthebean says:

      Good question. As I understand it, the interviews were of an array of kids in that age category. This is what turned up. So I’m not sure it skews anything if this is what was revealed through the interview process. Not all of the children reported what seems could be identifiable abuse…but some did. At least it seems that way. It would be interesting to study this question further to find out how children in a random sampling in the US would report.
      And it makes one wonder in general, about what life is like for women and children across the board. Is it worse than imagined? I don’t know.

      Thanks for joining the convo.

      Like

    • Anonymous says:

      I’m sure being hit by someone you love that’s supposed to be there to protect you not hurt you sure feels like abuse to these tiny people!!

      Like

      • cthebean says:

        It seems the children in this study have affirmed that. They have expressed what being targets of oppression feels like eloquently….the quote that got me was from a seven year old boy who expressed the terror and the hurt this way “It’s like when you’re in the sky and you’re falling to the ground and you just hurt yourself”
        Like falling out of the sky.

        Like

      • cthebean says:

        spanking..no matter the lightness of touch or where the hurt happens..is a betrayal of trust….very frightening for a little kid.

        Like

  39. Pingback: Children Speak About How Spanking Feels To Them | Atelierele Albe

  40. the children of today are nothing like our generation, or our parents generation. we continue to evolve…AS EVERYTHING DOES…evolution is constant (mind, body, soul, feeling)…and to say that because being spanked as a child didnt screw you up so it must be ok to continue doing it to this generation is just ridiculous. there are other ways to discipline.

    Like

    • cthebean says:

      Yes. I, for one, look forward to the day that spanking is no more.

      Like

    • Virgil Banowetz says:

      Spanking studies need to separate out the cases that are evaluated by the adults who were spanked as inappropriate or harmful. If you include these, the results will say the obvious. Better to exclude those cases so the study is useful. I would not want to judge the methods used by essentially all previous generations just because it feels right.

      When a young child does something that is dangerous, willful, and defiant like run into the street, I believe immediate punishment is appropriate. When surrounded by a society of activist anti-spanking judges, many who have never raised a defiant child, it just makes parenting more difficult.

      Like

      • Casey says:

        ‘When surrounded by a society of activist anti-spanking judges, many who have never raised a defiant child’

        So people who don’t smack raise kids who know right and wrong and don’t feel the need to be defiant? Sounds right to me! Think you just invalidated your own point. 🙂

        Like

        • Virgil Banowetz says:

          You seem to imply defiance is positively correlated with those who do not smack. You are probably right. If you don’t have a defiant child you do not need to spank. There is neither validation nor invalidation there.

          Like

      • cthebean says:

        Can we clarify some of this?
        Virgil are you saying that spanking should not be used just because it was used in the past? And..are you saying that studies need to be conducted by those who have never been spanked so that the study does not run the risk of being skewed because of potential bias? And are you saying that decisions about parenting should be left to parents and not the state? Am I understanding you correctly?

        Like

        • cthebean says:

          I think it would be interesting to look at studies conducted by those who have never been spanked.

          Like

        • Virgil Banowetz says:

          For cthebean’s questions, I answer “no, no, and yes”. The courts are there to handle the errors. If a government wants to become a nanny state, then I would hope it would be a small state so the rest us can learn from their mistakes without too much damage.
          Some measures of effectiveness for new policy would be changes in crime rate and attitudes of violence, bullying, cheating, etc. There are two questions here: (1) Should a parent ever spank, and (2) Should the government become an enforcer of parental behavior beyond protecting children from physical injury.

          Like

          • Casey says:

            I have a toddler who tests her boundaries but she feels safe and secure enough that she can, she’s not defiant, she’s a toddler, and I’m not lazy or dumb so once doing the research and having some compassion for my kid, who relies on me to teach her what is right and what is good treatment of people, I have chosen not to smack and she doesn’t know fear of her mother.
            As for your questions, no, parents should never hit and hitting is physical injury so the government should protect our most vulnerable. 🙂

            Like

          • cthebean says:

            Virgil
            It is not a nanny state issue about parenting. It is a civil rights issue. Children are people who should be able to expect they will not be targets of cruel or unusual treatment.

            Like

      • Virgil Banowetz says:

        And here is the link to a report that does that separation. (Thank you cthebean) This is a must-read document that gets to the cutting edge on spanking.
        http://humansciences.okstate.edu/facultystaff/Larzelere/mappvalsum.pdf

        Like

  41. Elizabeth V says:

    It’s really bothersome to me that a lot of the responses from these poor children are abusive. I mean, these kids are being abused! “Smacked” in the tummy? Smacked in the head, face, arms? One child expressed that their father hits their mother!!!!
    I’m sorry but there is a huge difference between spanking and smacking/hitting, and what these children are describing is HITTING. Spanking is on the bottom, with control, no markings.
    In the US you can’t just hit your child anywhere you please. Which is what seems to be the thought. You also can’t strike your child with any object other than your open hand. The US law is very clear. You may not strike your child anywhere other than their covered bottom with your hand. Anywhere else is considered child abuse and could lose your children. In the US smacking is hitting across the face or an open handed strike anywhere other than the bottom. It’s not legal here. If you think it is, tell that to the parents who have lost their children over it.

    Like

    • cthebean says:

      Elizabeth,
      There is no one US law. The laws regulating corporal punishment vary from state to state. I have not researched the state laws. Would love to get a link from you of the very clear law you are thinking of..perhaps it is a particular state that you are thinking of?
      Spanking, no matter how light or where the location of the hitting -is corporal punishment.
      Corporal punishment is defined by the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child as:
      “any punishment in which physical force is used and intended to cause some degree of pain or discomfort, however light.”
      Corporal punishment by parents has not been outlawed in the US. Yet.

      Thanks for writing!

      Like

      • Rob says:

        From the perspective of most of these children the “spanking” was called “hitting.” So let’s stop using the word “spanking.” Children don’t see it that way. They see it as hitting. So, next time you feel it appropriate to physically punish your child, set them down and explain that, “You have misbehaved so now mummy has to hit you.”

        Like

        • Rob, weak minded and ignorant people would advocate things like spanking children. By the time a parent spanks a child due to bad behavior, they may have won the battle but they lost the war as the saying goes. Parents think about how their kids’ behaviors affect them and yet they neglect the fact that how they respond may help or hurt the situation. To hit a child for misbehaving and telling him or her not to hit someone else is exceedingly hypocritical. Elizabeth V, spanking, beating-while one is less severe than the other, both include acts of physical aggression. Apply some common sense here, please and thank you. Casey, people who spank their kids and tell them that violence is wrong are hypocrites. If anybody you know spanks their kids, point out the hypocrisy of parents telling kids not to hit each other and then hitting them for misbehaving.

          Like

  42. niamhcat says:

    I have read studies where children were asked if they would rather be spanked or have other alternative punishments such as confinement to their room or being grounded, and pretty much unanimously the children said they would rather be spanked, because although it hurt, the punishment was over immediately, rather than being extended over time.

    Like

    • Y.R.G says:

      I never EVER would have said such a think when I was a child. There is endless research endlessly concluding the negative physiological effects of spanking on children. It’s undebatable. I think some children are hit enough and find ways of coping with it that result in themselves numbing themselves to the way they feel. I think these children are the most at risk of later being abused or abusers in adult relationships.

      Being spanked as a child made me feel worthless, like my parents didn’t love me. I would hurt myself as a child to validate my feelings so that adults would see the pain they were causing me inside on the outside.

      Like

      • cthebean says:

        Y.R.G.,
        You are right that there is abundant research about the very negative effects spanking has on children and all of society. Many do not know about the research, and others , who have been spanked as children or who have spanked their own children, have much to think about and resolve. As a society, we have been spankers….and this has been something that has been seen as normal and expected parenting strategy. It is in sharp question now, and this is difficult for people to process, I think.
        There are more effective ways to take care of kids. As this discussion continues throughout society, these ways will be talked about and learned about.

        And oh yeah..when I was a kid I was petrified of the idea or the actuality of spanking. I blogged about this a while back “I Was Spanked and I’m Fine”. My mom had a special spatula…..

        Thanks for writing!

        Like

    • cthebean says:

      Hi Niamhcat,
      That’s very interesting. I would like to see those studies.

      What do you think those answers mean or imply some kids think or feel about spanking?

      Like

  43. Kimberly says:

    It looks like there are other issues that need to be addressed with this group of children. Some of them talked about getting smacked because the parents were drunk, some have implications that their bones have broken because of it, some reporte watching their parents hit each other, and some just described full-blown child abuse. A light swat on the bottom as a “hey don’t do that” is different than what these kids are describing. They are being abused and witnessing abuse.

    Like

    • I was thinking the exact same things!

      Like

    • cthebean says:

      Yes…those gentle swats spoken of can become pretty out of control sometimes. Kids suffer terrible abuse at the hands of those that they count on to protect them. Some of those children were definitely talking about societally recognized and unlawful abuse.

      Like

      • Elizabeth V says:

        “Those gentle swats spoken of can become pretty out of control sometimes.”

        No, they can’t. It’s no longer spanking (swat on the bottom) once it goes beyond that. It’s called abuse when it goes beyond that AND it’s the parents responsibility to take and keep control of themselves to teach a lesson, not brutalize.
        I rarely spanked my children and I can tell you, not once did I lose control or sight of the objective. Which was to get their attention and remind them there are consequences for their actions. Some more severe than others.

        Like

        • cthebean says:

          Elizabeth,

          I have known some parents who have thought they were spanking the correct way, on the child’s bottom. Welts were left. I call that brutal.

          No matter how it is used..it is a punishment that inflicts fear and pain. We know this is not fleeting.

          Like

        • Elizabeth V, spanking is a weak method of behavioral correction. Clueless idiots advocate measures like that. It is hypocritical to claim that violence is wrong and use that sort of method to correct an undesirable behavior. Another thing that is hypocritical is to tell kids that hitting other people is wrong and than do that to kids when they misbehave.

          Like

  44. Anonymous says:

    I just want to point out that this article isn’t even about spanking. Note that each heading to this article says “smacking” which has a very different connotation to it. “Spanking” is a light swat on the behind used as a disciplinary action when a child does something dangerous that could cause them serious physical harm- like running into the street or sticking their finger into an electrical socket when they already know better than to do that. Smacking, on the other hand, is an action designed to inflict pain and is not confined to one part of the body. Multiple children reported being hit on their face, stomach, arms, legs and head in this article. That’s legitimate abuse. Whatever british version of CPS ought to intervene in those cases. But I would think that a level headed adult ought to know the difference between a benign spank and beating a child.

    Like

    • Anonymous says:

      And for the record, I was spanked as a child, and it didn’t ever ruin my day. And it certainly didn’t cause me any damage. That being said, I think if a parent knows what they’re doing as a parent spanking really shouldn’t be necessary at all.

      Like

      • cthebean says:

        I am glad to hear that you feel you are okay. I am also well aware that spanking has been an accepted US child rearing strategy in the distant past, before the 50’s when Benjamin Spock first wrote his books and changed the way the culture began to look at the spanking issue. As we learn more about human development we learn that it is an incredibly harmful practice. Spanking is no longer widely viewed as acceptable..not in the US and not in the world community.
        And FYI…there are others who have been smacked or spanked and tell a very different story from yours about the way they have been affected. A reader shared….

        ” I still remember being smacked in public, not hard but I felt so belittled, and so embarrassed. I use to chock on my tears so that people wouldn’t see me crying, especially when you weren’t really sure why you were hit. I think the worst was getting smacked in the face at dinner. Great way to lead to eating disorders.
        At home I remember feeling really sad. Just so upset at my mom, scared, Alone and like the worst possible person on the planet.
        Hitting sucks. No matter what!!!”

        Thank you for writing.

        Like

        • Some people can argue that spanking and beating are different. Are they really? Both acts involve physical aggression against children. Children seem to be unable to communicate what their needs are in some ways, so they seem to direct their attention to displaying behavior that is deservedly frowned upon. It is exceedingly hypocritical to hit a child for misbehavior and then tell them not to hit another person.

          Like

      • cthebean says:

        I think it is important to add here that parents need support to raise kids…and if they resort to spanking or hitting (as they may have witnessed or experienced as children) this does not make them inept or bad. People can learn new ways to deal with the challenges of parenting. People deserve support in these endeavors-not judgement.

        Like

      • I completely agree. It’s misleading that it is about spanking, but then it reads smacking. Now everyone is in a hype about spanking when the article isn’t even about it.

        Like

        • M says:

          It’s been pointed out that ‘smacking’ is the word used for ‘spanking’ in the UK in the article. I can back this up as it is the same here in Australia. What you refer to as spanking, we refer to as smacking. It’s the same thing.

          Like

        • Anonymous says:

          I like how all of you are making excuses. Hitting is hitting is hitting. If you are smacking swatting or spanking you are harming your child!!!!!!!! They are not crying bc of what they did wrong they are hurting. They after no longer thinking of what they’ve done wrong they are thinking about how mad they are that you’ve just hurt them!!!

          Like

    • cthebean says:

      Spanking is hitting. Swatting is hitting. Smacking is hitting. Smacking is a common word that is used in the UK to describe punitive and painful punishment of children. There are a variety of ways that violence against children is expressed…and a variety of ways that the hurting takes place…but there is no mistaking that it is punitive and painful…and illegal in many countries.

      Like

    • Spanking is spanking, even if you call it smacking and do it on another part of the body. The fact that you somehow think it’s different for Brits because they have a different word, or vary from the rear is a sign of your cognitive dissonance. Intent of the hitter doesn’t change the child’s interpretation of the violence.

      Like

  45. The Atomic Mom says:

    Just a note, the UN did not exist until 1945. You mentioned “as early as the 1920s” … please check your facts on that.

    Like

    • cthebean says:

      Thanks for assisting in clarity! It was the Geneva Declaration of the Rights of the Child in 1924 that as an international community first expressed the needs and rights of children. However, as the UN was establishing itself, these documents and other principles expressed through the League of Nations were collated and woven into the body of UN purpose and principles.
      http://www.un-documents.net/gdrc1924.htm

      Like

  46. I think it is interesting to note that the United States has yet to ratify the UN Rights of the Child. Their stance is that the US has a more progressive law in place. I’ve read both documents. The US does have some points that should be in the UN’s document, but by far the better laws are the UNs.

    Like

    • cthebean says:

      Susan it is interesting and incredibly sad for children that the US has refused to sign…..I have not read the US document. I would be very interested to see it.
      It is troubling that the prison population of the US is reported to be the largest in the world, and that a disproportionate number of young men of color inhabit the prisons. This is troubling. Very troubling, as it relates to how we care for our young.
      It would seem that self proclaimed leaders of the free world would lead in protecting the lives of children.

      Like

      • SDH says:

        The US will never sign something so intrusive into our lives. The US is about freedom and the UN is about controlling people so they are at conflicting ends of a spectrum. Some people believe the bible and we are entitled to our beliefs here “spare the rod and spoil the child”. I would rather have my child alive with a sore butt then a dead child who didn’t listen and got killed for it. I’ve seen it many times children that are not spanked do not listen, my ex wife’s friend kid got hut by a car because he wasn’t listening to his mother, whom never spanked him. Luckily he did get seriously hurt, and yes his mother now spanks him fir not listening.

        Like

        • cthebean says:

          SDH,
          You are right that the US has strong protections in place for freedom of religion. This does not give folks license to abuse or hurt others even if they feel their religion guides them in this direction.
          Corporal punishment used to be legal in schools. It is now a crime. Corporal punishment is allowed in the home, but is not permitted to step over the line into brutality.

          I look forward to the day when corporal punishment in the home becomes a relic of the past.

          thanks for writing.

          Like

          • SDH says:

            I think we agree for the most part I don’t think anyone but the parents and close relative have a place in spanking a child. And I do agree a lot of these kids talk about things that are nit right like hitting in the stomach etc. abuse is one thing but a sore butt is entirely different and I think that’s were we disagree.

            There are laws in place to protect the children in the US from abuse. You’re not allowed to use belts or lashings, the red marks can’t last a certain amount of time, I thought it was 15 minutes but it might be slightly longer and it can only be distributed to the bottom or upper legs.

            Like

            • M says:

              Parents should not leave red marks on their child, period. It astounds me that anyone thinks this is okay. Is it okay to go over to your neighbours house and use physical force to “leave a red mark” because you disagree with their actions, as long as the red mark doesn’t last longer than 15 minutes?

              Like

              • SDH says:

                For what ever reason I never got notified of your reply to me. So I that I realize it’s a late reply.

                In general your response is apples and oranges, we are not here to percent or neighbors, however I’ll enlighten you on the truth of the matter.

                Is it legal, strictly speaking no hitting your neighbor isn’t legal, that being said even that is symantics. If I did disagree with my neighbors and hit them and left a mark that disappeared in 30 seconds, technically it’s legal. The fact that now there is no proof that I touched them means no law was broken. Laugh if you want some peopl feel that way.

                As you divisive question implies that spanking is a form of rage, it’s not it’s discipline not rage or anger. I agree that children should be disciplined out of anger.

                That being said, I believe spanking a child has its place and I’ve personally seen it work wonders, it just needs to be used appropriately.

                Like

        • Chelsea says:

          “Spare the rod and spoil the child.” Love it when Christian’s try to use that to argument to make it seem like their abuse is totally okay. If a Shepard hit his own sheep with his rod do you think those sheep would have continued to followed him? No, if you know anything about animals at all they will run from the abuse.They would quickly learn that their Shepard could not be trusted and could hit them if they came too close. In reality a Shepard would gently guide his sheep, keeping them out of harms way with the rod as an “extension of his arm,” to keep the sheep from straying where it shouldn’t. Gentle, directed guidance. Not full fledged animal abuse. And on that note…don’t you just love it how animal’s rights are protected in the good ol’ US of A?! If you abuse your pets you”ll have them removed from your care, you’ll be fined, and probably be taken to court. But it’s okay to hit your children because you are “disciplining” them?! What a messed up, hypocritical country!! I don’t think the Good Shepard would approve of the violence against his children! I think we should be ashamed at abuse “in Jesus name.”

          Like

          • Thomas says:

            “IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT ANIMALS.” Dogs are built to return to their master even when they’ve been inhumanely abused. They are still loving and faithful. What do you know about animals? You can be chopping off chickens heads on a stump in the middle of the chicken pen and the chickens show no fear. They just keep on clucking and scratching for food on the ground. Other animals in these two situations react just the opposite.

            Be careful when you challenge your readers that you have thought the question through. If the so-called corporal punishment were so repulsive to animals, there would be far fewer trained animals in the circuses and shows. Don’t confuse animals and humans.

            Like

            • Calla says:

              Animals in circus acts are not performing out of some loyalty to their trainers. They are performing because they have learned that pain will follow any disobedience. Are you aware that prior abuse and mistreatment of a dog can result in aggressive behaviour and attacks? It is disgusting that so many adults still think its ok to use fear, pain and humiliation to discipline children.

              Like

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